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List:       kde-edu-devel
Subject:    Re: Aw: Re: LabPlot - Cannot print or export
From:       Stefan Gerlach <stefan.gerlach () uni-konstanz ! de>
Date:       2021-01-06 17:04:01
Message-ID: 8634ccec-9074-2103-a733-ac2e700c924f () uni-konstanz ! de
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Hi Bill,
> I always always always test new stuff on a virtual machine before letting \
> it onto my main systems.  If it blows up, I can revert to a snapshot.   \
> On a real computer, if it blows up I often have to rebuild from the \
> metal.  It is a risk not worth taking, and a problem that has bitten me \
> many  times.  It is a lesson I learned the hard way.

Flatpaks are installed as user in a single directory. You are totally save \
when using a different user account.

> The main issued I found with the flatpak for LabPlot is that it does not \
> save files where I expect it to.  I specified "/home/bgee/Documents" as  \
> the directory.  LabPlot reports success.  If I save the file again, \
> LabPlot reports that the file is already there.  However, I cannot see \
> the  file with any other program!  Bash, Krusader, Dolphin ...  None of \
> them see the files I saved out of LabPlot.  In my mind that is reason \
> enough  to not use the flatpak.

I will take a look. Nobody else complained so it may be a problem of Fedora \
only.

> There may also be problems with themes, icons, fonts etc.  I did not test \
> for that.  The Z-order problem with file-open and file-save dialogs is  \
> very annoying but not quite a show stopper

It's the first version that we packed as Flatpak and there are still some \
edges :-)

> As a general philosophy, I still think that flatpaks, snaps and \
> containers are imperfect solutions for which no problem exists.  Let's \
> assume,  for example, that I choose to run EVERY application I use as a \
> flatpak.  That means Firefox, LibreOffice, KMail, KOrganizer, KeePassXC, \
> Audacity  et.al.  Each of them brings in and launches a complete version \
> of KDE.  None of them is running in the same sandbox, so they cannot see \
> each  other and use each other's services.  If, for example, I click on a \
> KMail attachment to open it, does Gwenview open in the same sandbox as  \
> KMail?  If I click on an image in Firefox, does it open the same Gwenview \
> instance as the one that KMail launched?  If I click on an email  address \
> in Firefox, does that launch a new instance of KMail or does it use the \
> sandbox that is already running?

Flatpaks are normally only an extension of a full distribution. There are \
of course basic runtimes (like a KDE installation) and communication  \
methods that can be used by different Flatpak applications. I'm not a \
Flatpak expert but it should be easy to select the system or the flatpak  \
version of a package when needed.

> KeePassXC connects into Firefox to provide password filling.  If they are \
> running in separate sandboxes, then how are they to talk to each  other?  \
> If I make a settings change in the KDE System Settings application, how \
> does that get inside all the different KDE sandboxes?

There are common settings when all KDE apps use the same runtime. You can \
have different runtimes (versions of KDE), so this may be a problem.

> I understand the problems with "DLL Hell", or its equivalent in Linux.  I \
> made a good living for many years doing Windows tech support.  I think  \
> that flatpaks, snaps and containers are an interesting attempt to solve \
> that problem.  However, the only result has been to change the  \
> appearance.  It is not gone - it just looks different.

"DLL Hell" was caused by every app providing own libraries but did not use \
a sandbox. This is not a problem in a Linux distribution or in Flatpak. We \
encourage all distributions to provide packages for LabPlot but the latest \
version on most distributions is only available via Flatpak (when  not \
compiling it yourself). The download numbers are quite high so many users \
seem to appreciate it.

> I am - and remain - a committed contrary curmudgeon!  :-)  I think the \
> real answer is to find a Fedora packager and ask them to create a  \
> repository package for LabPlot 2.8.1.

We are working on that :-)

best regards,
Stefan

> 
> On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:38:15 AM CST Stefan Gerlach wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bill,
> 
> > 
> 
> > i maintain the Flatpak package, so i can hopefully give some answers.
> 
> > Flatpak is installing a package inside a sandbox. You don't need a VM \
> > to test it. It only needs a few system libraries. The advantage is that
> 
> > you can run the same package on many different systems. The \
> > disadvantage is that it brings all libraries it needs (Qt, KDE, etc. in \
> > our case),
> 
> > but several apps can use this so called runtime environment.
> 
> > I can check on Fedora if there are problems due to LabPlot running in \
> > the Flatpak sandbox. The Z-order or theme problems may also be related \
> > to
> 
> > Flatpak settings or missing configuration files. We can check this.
> 
> > 
> 
> > best
> 
> > Stefan
> 
> > 
> 
> > On 05/01/2021 02:33, Bill Gee wrote:
> 
> > > Hi Alexander -
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 


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