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List:       kde-edu-devel
Subject:    Re: [kde-edu-devel] KDE-Edu policy (was: Re: [kde-edu]: Kig first release)
From:       "Mahfouf Anne-Marie" <annemahfouf () hotmail ! com>
Date:       2002-09-08 19:34:29
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Hi,

>I will try to pick on every app so noone needs to feel especially bad .-)
;) fair enough

>One thing we should come to a conclusion with is the usage of Splash 
>Screens.
>If we decide to keep them, then maybe unify them and state "KDE Edu" on all 
>of
>them?

I put splash screens in my apps just because my kids like them. For a kid, 
it's a way
to recognize which app will run and it's fun (I mean a young kid who does 
not read yet)
But I agree it does not mix well with KDE standards where splash screens are 
only for
apps that take time to load.
So I have no definite opinion now... But we must find an answer in order to
start a policy document.
Everyone please state your opinion!

>flashkard:
>***  Good application, please fix the font-issue, make it v. 1.0 and keep 
>it.
Klas, could please elaborate on what to do in the code to fix that font 
issue
as it involves almost all the apps?

>khangman
>-------------
>   + does what it is supposed to do
>   - Splashscreen (see kgeo)
>   - very non-standard interface (if anyone has the means to do some 
>usability
>testing this might be an app worth creating different interfaces for and 
>then
>picking the one that was received best)
hmmm, is already way better than it was, believe me.

>   - Why does it need 2 modes? Why not just one, maybe with configurable
>background pictures?

KLettres and KHangMan must deal with young kids that cannot read yet or that
don't read well. So the 2 interfaces followed a discussion we had to deal 
with that
problem.
A young kid cannot use a setting menu to configure things.

>   - Apparently does not use QT Layouts (or not enough), setting the 
>fontsize
>to a larger value makes it unusable
>   - low quality of startup sound
>*** I think this application is small enough so it could be worked on to 
>meet
>standards, but without some reworking it should not be in kdeedu.

Kids and parents like it though. Of course, it is not a pure educational 
application,
it's more of a game. But we also talked of the possibility of using the same 
database
of words for KHangMan, KMessedWords and KLearnSpelling.
I am biased on that one though.

>klettres
>-------------
>   + very clean interface
>   - fixed fonts (in the toolbar and status bar)
>   - uses a pseudo-toolbar: looks like one, but apparently is not a KDE
>Toolbar. (did not look at the code, though)
>   - is there a reason for the unconventional status bar?
innovation?
research for young-kid-oriented GUI?
mistake in my code?

>   - most soundfiles have noise in them
>   - In the status bar: Language Name is not translated, but in the toolbar 
>it
>is (i.e: "Aktuelle Sprache ist Dutch" in status bar and "Niederländisch" in
>toolbar)
>*** Because I like the look of it so much I'd say keep it, but please work 
>on
>the negative points. I also wonder if it would be a better idea to make the
>background configurable instead of having 2 modes to switch between. If the
>toolbar would use KToolbar and XML GUI then there would be even less need 
>for
>two seperate modes in one application.
We once talked about a module in KControl that would control the behaviour 
of
edu kid-oriented apps.
I think we would need more feedback from teachers and parents on that one as 
it
involves a new category of KDE users.

Problem with sound files is that it is very difficult to record stuff.
Maybe someone in the i18n team would be able to record those sounds better.

>kmessedwords
>-------------
>   + nice feedback on the correctness of the given answer.
>   - Standard Buttons on background picture is *very* problematic 
>(depending on
>button style and font, does not look good with keramik)
>   - Although it is possible to use user-defined dictionaries the default 
>ones
>are not translated (if I start the application in a german environment it
>expects me to guess english words, but this is nowhere stated)
>   - Configuration dialog apparently does not use QLayout.
>*** This is a tough one. Mainly because of the button issue I'd say do not
>keep it (the other issues should be easy enough to solve).

As I said earlier, I think it goes with KHangMan.
I don't mind K Extra Gear as long as users can access the apps and as long 
as the
apps would benefit from the work of the i18n teams.

>knorskverbs
>-------------
>*** I'd say do not keep it. Tools as highly specialized as this might be
>better of on their own in the Extra Gear (yeah I know I have been defending
>this tool previously, but I changed my mind regarding specialized language
>tools).

OK with me

>kpercentage

I personally see it as a part for KMath.

>kverbos
>-------------
>   + has got documentation
>   - not fully translated yet (is this only a problem of translation or is 
>it
>still not fully i18n compatible?)
>   - I do not understand the interface and have no clue what to do. I 
>cannot
>even judge if my problems come from bugs in the program, my not existing
>knowledge of spanish or bad interface design. I felt like an idiot when I 
>was
>asked to show kverbos at Linux Tag because I simply could not use it.
>  - Should be part of one language application.
>*** Do not keep. It is not only mostly in spanish and highly specialized, 
>it
>is even unusable for someone just starting the program and trying to play
>around with it. Requiring the user to read the manual first is always bad
>(even though the manual seems to be rather good).

If we want a one-for-all-languages app, a global one, then KVerbos should
go to K Extra Gear.
But when will we have that global app?

> > - make a precise TODO list with names and deadlines
>don't we already have something like this on the website?
well, yes but it should be refreshed

> > - define the policy the app should conform to
>I hope that the discussions about this mail lead to some sort of "policy
>document"
>
Michael, any thought?

> > - define where to put the single apps so the user can still
> > get them if they want, especially for the apps we dump now.
>That would be the Extra Gear for all maintained applications we drop.
>
>Unfortunately edu.kde.org is down at the moment, I was going to have a look 
>at
>what we already have (in terms of ToDo list and so on).
>
>Do we already have some kind of "task-forces" for the big apps most of us 
>seem
>to want (like kmath and a language app)? Perhaps everybody interested in
>working on those projects should say so here (and also say how much work
>she/he can invest).

yes so I start.
I am too weak a designer to go in a big app work.
I would like to re-start KTimes or carry on with KTT. As a KMath part if 
possible.
I will also rewrite KLearnSpelling to put it in K Extra Gear.

AnnMa

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