From kde-edu-devel Thu Jul 25 14:45:58 2002 From: Thomas Diehl Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:45:58 +0000 To: kde-edu-devel Subject: [kde-edu-devel] Re: Kiten X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-edu-devel&m=102760862007143 On Thursday 25 July 2002, Klas Kalass wrote: > How do you decide which program is of general interest, then? Especiall= y in=20 > kdeedu that is impossible. For illustration I will list some programs i= n=20 > kdeedu and what the target groups of those are: First: Please CC me if you want me to see postings to this list. I am not= =20 subscribed. It may also be a good idea to keep kde-i18n-doc on CC. This t= hing=20 wasn't started by me (again). As for which programs to include into edu I'd say: Anything you can expec= t in=20 the curriculum of most (high) schools in most countries. And also everyth= ing=20 for which you can reasonably expect interest among the users of most=20 countries all over the world. I'd simply like to suggest that every devel= oper=20 asks him/herself whether the app (or what's the app is about) is worthwhi= le=20 for our 60+ language teams to translate. If the answer is "yes", include = it.=20 If unsure, let's discuss it before including it in CVS. You can say, of course, that learning languages is part of about any=20 curriculum worldwide. But that's about the only agreement you will get.=20 _Which_ language should be the one to include will differ from region to=20 region. Therefore, I'd suggest to only include programs that are usable f= or=20 learning about any language or at least a whole system of languages. Exam= ples=20 would be KVoctrain, KMessedwords and, maybe, KLettres. But I would also=20 suggest to not include courses for individual languages like Kiten, KVerb= os,=20 or knorskverbs. If we start including them where should we stop? Not at all, , ie includi= ng=20 hundreds of these courses one day? I'd say this is the shortest way to ma= ke=20 translation teams give up on the edu module alltogether. Or are we going = to=20 include only the "top ten" like Chinese, Spanish, English, Bengali and a = few=20 others? But this would leave no place for a lot of things that are consid= ered=20 highly educational at least in some parts of the world, like Latin, Sansk= rit,=20 or Ancient Greek. To me, this wouldn't make sense either. At the moment I would suggest to either move the programs to extragear or= =20 create an extra module for them which would be handled in a similar way a= s=20 extragear. > flashkard: Someone who wants to learn something (the most general it ca= n get=20 > for kdeedu) > [...] Don't see a problem with any of the programs you listed. But I'm foreseei= ng=20 big (and very much growing) problems if we keep adding individual courses= for=20 each individual language on the planet. >I have to agree with Jason: If the app is of regional non-interest, then= =20 > don't translate it for those regions because it is not worth the effort= =20 > obviously. Well, if we start the "don't translate it if you don't like it" thing aga= in we=20 can just as well merge the extragear back into the main modules. At least= for=20 the translators, it was the whole point of creating extragear that we wan= ted=20 completely localized desktop environments and wanted to keep everything o= ut=20 that was highly specialized or would duplicate functionality. And "highly= =20 specialized" clearly also means to me "programs that are only of regional= =20 interest". Regards, Thomas Am Donnerstag, 25. Juli 2002 11:24 schrieb Thomas Diehl: > Am Donnerstag, 25. Juli 2002 01:45 schrieb Jason Katz-Brown: > > Sorry, I did not realize this list was required reading, I should > > subscribe.. thanks to neil for pointing the thread out. > > I also sent some of the complaints to kde-edu-devel. > > > I know many many more Non-Japanese that use Kiten than Japanese peopl= e > > (maybe they are too quiet :) that use Kiten. Japanese seems to be a > > popular language (or at least the demand for looking up words), just > > because Anime and Manga are popular. Not to mention a Chinese and Ger= man > > dictionary works as well. However, I don't think this is the best rea= son; > > I don't really see a problem. If translators make claims that 99.9% o= f > > their users won't use an app, then doesn't it make sense not to trans= late > > it? > > No. Most language teams are aiming for fully translated user environmen= ts > and (apparently) think that KDE proper should only contain programs of > "more general interest". It is, of course, debatable what's really "gen= eral > interest". But I think we can safely assume that programs for learning = just > one single language (like apparently Kiten, KVerbos, and Knorskverbs) a= re > _not_ "general interest" by any stretch of imagination. The counterexam= ple > would be KVoctrain which tries to support any language in any direction= =2E > > This, of course, does also _not_ mean specialized programs were unimpor= tant > for their users. (I have to work a lot under Windows myself exactly bec= ause > of the lack of such specialized programs.) But, IMO, they do not belong= to > KDE core, they belong to kdeextragear. This was one of the reasons we > created this module in the first place. > > > The last thing I want, though, is translators feeling like they spent= the > > last hour translating 200 messages for nothing. That wouldn't be goo= d > > for anybody. Thanks, > > I'm sure, all translators (or users) interested in these programs will > easily find them in extragear and work on them. Are you okay with movin= g > Kiten there? > > Regards, > > Thomas --=20 KDE translation: http://i18n.kde.org Deutsche KDE-Uebersetzung: http://i18n.kde.org/teams/de _______________________________________________ kde-edu-devel mailing list kde-edu-devel@mail.kde.org http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu-devel