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List:       kde-edu
Subject:    Re: Aw: Re: LabPlot - Cannot print or export
From:       Stefan Gerlach <stefan.gerlach () uni-konstanz ! de>
Date:       2021-01-06 17:04:01
Message-ID: 8634ccec-9074-2103-a733-ac2e700c924f () uni-konstanz ! de
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Hi Bill,
> I always always always test new stuff on a virtual machine before letting it onto my main \
> systems.  If it blows up, I can revert to a snapshot.   On a real computer, if it blows up I \
> often have to rebuild from the metal.  It is a risk not worth taking, and a problem that has \
> bitten me many  times.  It is a lesson I learned the hard way.

Flatpaks are installed as user in a single directory. You are totally save when using a \
different user account.

> The main issued I found with the flatpak for LabPlot is that it does not save files where I \
> expect it to.  I specified "/home/bgee/Documents" as  the directory.  LabPlot reports \
> success.  If I save the file again, LabPlot reports that the file is already there.  However, \
> I cannot see the  file with any other program!  Bash, Krusader, Dolphin ...  None of them see \
> the files I saved out of LabPlot.  In my mind that is reason enough  to not use the flatpak.

I will take a look. Nobody else complained so it may be a problem of Fedora only.

> There may also be problems with themes, icons, fonts etc.  I did not test for that.  The \
> Z-order problem with file-open and file-save dialogs is  very annoying but not quite a show \
> stopper

It's the first version that we packed as Flatpak and there are still some edges :-)

> As a general philosophy, I still think that flatpaks, snaps and containers are imperfect \
> solutions for which no problem exists.  Let's assume,  for example, that I choose to run \
> EVERY application I use as a flatpak.  That means Firefox, LibreOffice, KMail, KOrganizer, \
> KeePassXC, Audacity  et.al.  Each of them brings in and launches a complete version of KDE.  \
> None of them is running in the same sandbox, so they cannot see each  other and use each \
> other's services.  If, for example, I click on a KMail attachment to open it, does Gwenview \
> open in the same sandbox as  KMail?  If I click on an image in Firefox, does it open the same \
> Gwenview instance as the one that KMail launched?  If I click on an email  address in \
> Firefox, does that launch a new instance of KMail or does it use the sandbox that is already \
> running?

Flatpaks are normally only an extension of a full distribution. There are of course basic \
runtimes (like a KDE installation) and communication  methods that can be used by different \
Flatpak applications. I'm not a Flatpak expert but it should be easy to select the system or \
the flatpak  version of a package when needed.

> KeePassXC connects into Firefox to provide password filling.  If they are running in separate \
> sandboxes, then how are they to talk to each  other?  If I make a settings change in the KDE \
> System Settings application, how does that get inside all the different KDE sandboxes?

There are common settings when all KDE apps use the same runtime. You can have different \
runtimes (versions of KDE), so this may be a problem.

> I understand the problems with "DLL Hell", or its equivalent in Linux.  I made a good living \
> for many years doing Windows tech support.  I think  that flatpaks, snaps and containers are \
> an interesting attempt to solve that problem.  However, the only result has been to change \
> the  appearance.  It is not gone - it just looks different.

"DLL Hell" was caused by every app providing own libraries but did not use a sandbox. This is \
not a problem in a Linux distribution or in Flatpak. We encourage all distributions to provide \
packages for LabPlot but the latest version on most distributions is only available via Flatpak \
(when  not compiling it yourself). The download numbers are quite high so many users seem to \
appreciate it.

> I am - and remain - a committed contrary curmudgeon!  :-)  I think the real answer is to find \
> a Fedora packager and ask them to create a  repository package for LabPlot 2.8.1.

We are working on that :-)

best regards,
Stefan

> 
> On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:38:15 AM CST Stefan Gerlach wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bill,
> 
> > 
> 
> > i maintain the Flatpak package, so i can hopefully give some answers.
> 
> > Flatpak is installing a package inside a sandbox. You don't need a VM to test it. It only \
> > needs a few system libraries. The advantage is that
> 
> > you can run the same package on many different systems. The disadvantage is that it brings \
> > all libraries it needs (Qt, KDE, etc. in our case),
> 
> > but several apps can use this so called runtime environment.
> 
> > I can check on Fedora if there are problems due to LabPlot running in the Flatpak sandbox. \
> > The Z-order or theme problems may also be related to
> 
> > Flatpak settings or missing configuration files. We can check this.
> 
> > 
> 
> > best
> 
> > Stefan
> 
> > 
> 
> > On 05/01/2021 02:33, Bill Gee wrote:
> 
> > > Hi Alexander -
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 


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