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List: kde-edu
Subject: Re: libkeduvocdocument name
From: Andreas Xavier <andxav () zoho ! com>
Date: 2014-08-13 17:44:13
Message-ID: 147d07856d3.1195aa4e536640.4368109637494203405 () zoho ! com
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Inge,
Thanks for the answers.
Two things:
1. What do you want the library named?
2. I read the OPC spec and in the foreword there is the following sentence about \
patent rights.
"Attention is drawn to the possibility that some of the elements of this document \
may be the subject of patent rights. ISO and IEC shall not be held responsible for \
identifying any or all such patent rights."
Is this a problem?
Andreas
---- On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:46:25 -0700 Inge Wallin<inge@lysator.liu.se> wrote ----
> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 06:37:59 Andreas Xavier wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > If we are going to abandon the library for a new library with the new format
> > , then I think we should stop work on libkdeedudocument now and not read
> > any further in this email.
>
> Nobody is talking about abandoning it. At least I don't think so. If nothing \
else, libkecuvocdocument is needed for backward compatibility with lots of existing \
files in applications like Parley, hangman, etc. What the thread is about is if we \
want to rename this library to something else - which I don't think (see below). > \
> > I think that we should keep the library and iterate toward a new api and the
> > new file format, maintaining functionality for artikulate, kanagram and
> > parley as we proceed.
>
> I don't think that, for two reasons:
>
> 1. The old file format and the old API of the library should not change. At the \
very most they can be expanded with some new fields or new calls. But we need to \
maintain backward compatibility with old applications - including non-kde apps that \
we don't even know exist. >
> 2. The new file format will introduce so many changes that it will not be \
possible to evolve the library while still maintaining backward compatibility. We \
need a new library in addition to the old one. Note: not instead of but in addition \
to. >
> > I think that the name of the library should be meaningful even if only used
> > in conversations about the library. In libkdeeduvocdocument, the kdeedu
> > portion is just preamble and the document portion is misleading, because it
> > is more a collection of vocabulary related sets and things.
>
> Actually it's keduvoc..., not kdeeduvoc... :). Yeah, I was confused by that too \
in the beginning. >
> > As a name I like libLexikon. It is meaningful, with fun short forms liblexi
> > and lexi.
> >
> > If we keep this library, then I think that the next 2 steps are:
> >
> > 1. Split the kvtml2 writer away from the core object and set it up with
> > unittests and a writerManager in the same way as the readerManager.
> > This supports future multiple output formats and will speed up development.
> >
> > 2. Write unittests around the individual chunks of KEduVocDocument and make
> > it into a QObject with everything a property, signal, slot or overloaded
> > function for maximum future source and binary compatibility.
> >
> > Give me a sign and I can start this work or not.
>
> The new format is not designed yet. But I think that we agree on a few key \
points (correct me if I am wrong here): >
> 1. It should be based on a ZIP store. This is well handled by the KArchive \
framework in KF5, although I think the API is overly complex. >
> 2. We want to separate the word/data content from the confidence levels ("grade" \
in the old terminology). >
> 3. The data format should be based on XML, similarly to kvtml files.
>
> My suggestion would be to call the two parts words.xml and training.xml. There \
may be more parts, e.g. pictures and sounds (and other multimedia too, like videos?). \
The Open Document Format, ODF, uses internal links to access those and normally they \
are kept in subdirectories like Pictures/ and Sounds/ inside the ZIP store. >
> If you want to start, I think you can start a new repo and start to write code \
and tests for these basic properties, I am all for it. >
> Other things that we might like to copy from ODF is a /mimetype file with the \
mimetype of the format and a nice manifest. >
> Somebody suggested that we base the format on the Open Packaging Conventions, \
OPC, which is the base for many file formats, especially on windows. It's more \
complex than ODF but also slightly more expressive and flexible. >
> -Inge
>
> > Andreas
> >
> > ---- On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:56:39 -0700 Inge Wallin wrote ----
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > Sorry to be a bit late to the table, but here is my input anyway...
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 14:41:12 Jeremy Whiting wrote:
> > > > Peter,
> > > >
> > > > You make a good point. Actually the name being old isn't the only
> > > > reason to change it. There are two reasons. One is that
> > > > libkeduvocdocument is quite a mouthful. But the more important one is
> > > > that in the future we plan to update the library to use a new file
> > > > format.
> > >
> > > Well, this is not completely accurate, at least not if I only go the plans
> > > that are still only in my head and not written down.
> > >
> > > It's true that we want to create the new file format but I am not sure
> > > that putting the code in the old library is the way to go. Perhaps we
> > > will create a new library that uses keduvocdocument or perhaps we will
> > > introduce incompatibilities that make the new file format not use pure
> > > keduvocdocument.
> > >
> > > Parley, the application, will of course still support the old formats, so
> > > no change there.
> > >
> > > In short, do not support the name change of the repository. I think we
> > > should keep keduvocdocument for the old format and (maybe) lexikon for
> > > the new format.>
> > > -Inge
> > >
> > > > The technical details haven't been ironed out completely yet,
> > > > but ideally we want the xml and any accompanying image and sound files
> > > > to be included within one compressed file (most likely zip) for
> > > > simpler uploading, downloading, and sharing of vocabulary files. A bit
> > > > of work has been done looking at existing file formats and standards,
> > > > but nothing has been set in stone yet (or in code either) and I'd like
> > > > the change to be gradual rather than all at once if we can. However
> > > > since libkeduvocdocument has it's own git repository now I'd like to
> > > > have a name for the git repository and the library to begin with, it
> > > > will be much harder to rename the git repository or library after we
> > > > have a few releases with the long libkeduvocdocument name.
> > > >
> > > > BR,
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Peter Hedlund <peter@peterandlinda.com> \
wrote: > > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > Not that I am going to argue one way or other since I am not very
> > > > > involved
> > > > > these days, but it seems that if the only reason for a change is that
> > > > > the
> > > > > name is old then I don't see the point. It appears your real issue is
> > > > > with the kvtml extension but changing that would confuse existing
> > > > > users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Jeremy Whiting <jpwhiting@kde.org> wrote:
> > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> IRC has been a bit quiet the past few days since I got back from my
> > > > >> vacation, so I thought I'd give the mailing list a try.
> > > > >> libkeduvocdocument needs a new name. the current name (and new git
> > > > >> repo) are old, kvoctrain has been renamed to Parley for quite a long
> > > > >> time. kvtml derives it's name from kvoctrain, so doesn't make a lot
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> sense going forward. A couple of weeks ago a discussion on irc led to
> > > > >> the suggestion of liblexikon which is a swedish word for dictionary
> > > > >> from what I understand (and is close enough to other latin based
> > > > >> words
> > > > >> to be recognizable also).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So I propose to rename libkeduvocdocument (the library based on
> > > > >> frameworks and qt5, and the git repo itself) to liblexikon. If nobody
> > > > >> speaks up in the next week or so I'll make it happen. If anyone has a
> > > > >> better idea, speak now :)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> thanks,
> > > > >> Jeremy
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > > >> kde-edu@mail.kde.org
> > > > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu
> > > > >
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