[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: kde-doc-english
Subject: Re: [kde-doc-english] sudo? - DOCUMENTATION
From: Jerry Nelson <jerrynelson () speakeasy ! net>
Date: 2013-05-23 20:29:11
Message-ID: 20130523202937.66FB91EE520F () asbnvacz-mailrelay01 ! megapath ! net
[Download RAW message or body]
[Attachment #2 (multipart/alternative)]
At 5/21/2013 01:49 AM Tuesday, you wrote:
>написане Tue, 21 May 2013 04:35:46 +0300, Jerry Nelson
><jerrynelson@speakeasy.net>:
>
>>"Sudo" does not appear in the alphabetized list.
>>I see no topic heading on root, or privileges, or super user.
>>
>>I start the editor, I am not warned I have no privileges to change the
>>file, I
>>work and cannot save my work. This is a dead end that wastes my work.
>>
>>Please enrich the documentation to deal with "privileges", "superuser"
>>"sudo".
>>
>>Please add a warning if I lack r/w privileges for the file I have opened.
>>
>>Please make a menu item that gets me into sudo mode even if the menu is
>>only
>>informational and I must relaunch the app myself.
>>
>>I apologize in advance if there are answers to these issues in Kate and
>>I just
>>did not see them.
>>
>>kdesudo kate?
>>
>>--jerry
>
>Hi,
>
>Sure, it's a Kate bug (depends on developers PoV but closing without
>prompt to save the file with a different name is not a nice thing).
>
>Can you file a bug report against Kate [1]?
>
>@all Regarding documentation, can we just copy the old chapter about
>su/sudo from KDE 3 User Guide to Fundamentals taking into account that
>kdesudo is Ubuntu specific?
>
>Thanks in advance for your answers.
>
>Best regards,
>Yuri
>
>[1] https://bugs.kde.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=kate&format=guided
Yuri,
I filed the bug report.
When a noob starts to edit and forgets sudo, then
can't save, what helps a lot is education and usage examples.
The glossary needs to have terms like "superuser"
"root user" "sudo" and "kdesudo". Even though
the concept "root" made an appearance in the
blockbuster movie "Jurassic Park", it still needs
to be introduced to people for whom it never existed, or who forgot the movie.
For help about the relationships between things
and their larger purposes (rather than the syntax
of the commands needed to accomplish those
purposes), the glossary is the avenue of entry. It matters.
I still wonder (perhaps others also):
1. Is it OK to start a GUI app from the CLI with a sudo or kdesudo command?
(BTW, the Samba Server Configuration app, a GUI
for system-config-samba, cannot be started from
the KDE Application Launcher Menu [mode]. Samba
has a pop-up to ask for the user pwd, but the popup will not accept any pwd.)
2. What is the difference between sudo and
kdesudo or may I use them interchangeably?
3. Usage examples rather than man page text is the goal.
"An easy way to edit a file in a folder
with permission restrictions (e.g., an important systems folder)
is to go to the folder that contains the file and start Kate with
sudo kate NameOfFile2Edit."
If you are building a new system, have
added a drive, and need to change the file system
table of drives, "fstab," you might do this:
pwd - Where am I now? Print my Working Directory.
cd / - Change my director back up to the root.
cd /etc Change back down to the /etc folder.
sudo kate fstab
CONCERNING COPYING OLD DOCUMENTATION INTO NEW: ANSWER: YES, DO IT.
Yuri wrote 5/2013:
@all Regarding documentation, can we just copy the old chapter about
su/sudo from KDE 3 User Guide to Fundamentals taking into account that
kdesudo is Ubuntu specific?
Please divide all the documentation into
1. FOREWORD
2. DOCUMENTATION ABOUT PROGRAMS YOU WANT TO LAUNCH & USE
alphabetical list
if you break up the list,
you must not divide it in any way that is different from
how the Applications Launcher Menu
[mode] chooses to divide the apps.
It is OK, it is expected, that several
programs will appear in both the "want to launch and use" list,
and in the "move around the operating
system and change/fix stuff" list.
3. DOCUMENTATION ABOUT VISITING AND MOVING AROUND IN THE OPERATING SYSTEM
Documentation [about specific programs, and,
rarely, particular commands] that we need to add pgms:
documentation to read if you want to run
sudo apt-get install or find out what that means,
or learn how to look for other
"packages" to install: the Muon Package Manager, Ubuntu Software Center
sudo apt-get install software-center
Mention the Panel and Widgets. Mention
the search command in duckduckgo.com !upackages software-center
"For programs that launch all the
programs, read about: link to Application Launcher, others. "
Documentation [of pgms, apps] to read if you are
adding drives or thinking about using a file
system other than the current
default: gparted, KDE Partition
Manager, fstab, mount, umount, etc see also 3rd
party pcmanfm . . . mkfs.btrfs, apt-get install btrfs-tools.
"gparted / view / file system support"
seems a very buried, indirect way to find out
what file systems actually live in this new world.
If there was a list of supported or somewhat-supported file systems
(the list does not have to definitive;
we need a guide, not a guarantee; you write, we
wont' sue, just put in a disclaimer)
with a list of file systems in the
documentation , then under btrfs I might discover
that btrfs-progs is now btrfs-tools,
whatever. The documentation would be
the launch pad for discovery that is my problem, not yours.
You are figuring out how to create an
overview that is also tied to specific programs,
you are not telling noobs to go out and kill themselves.
Documentation to read for file management --
moving around the folder tree, viewing and
editing files, creating network shares,
what can you do with Nepomuk and Strigi? Dolphin!! pcmanfm
Documentation [which pgm names?] to read if you
want info on the opsys itself, or the underlying hardware
KInfoCenter, System Monitor, maybe there are more . . .
THE FOREWORD
The FOREWORD can divide up the landscape in whatever is a convenient way.
I need to have several things mentioned, be told
roughly their relationship, and be told
explicitly (just a link) where to get more
information about them. The essential,
mysterious things for the Foreword include:
Ubuntu, Kubuntu: both are variants of Linux (you
could reference a famous book or Website),
Kubuntu is the KDE flavor of Ubuntu, and KDE is
mostly graphics technology for changing how
Kubuntu does its desktop compared to
Ubuntu. (References welcome. I suggest using
only famous institutionally stable ones that you
won't have to change or update often).
I need a word about the relationship between the
kernel and the overall "Ubuntu" or "Kubuntu "
operating system. Makes me think I don't
understand what a kernel is when people in this
world can run an old kernel with a new operating
system (to save compatibility with a major app they have in production).
Now you are in a strong position to solve the
mystery of the meaning of a "Long Term Support"
edition -- what must change, what will not change if you choose this.
You can give your own opinion ("In the humble
opinion of some Kubuntu community members . . .
"). Every time you realize that entire
university course have been devoted to something
you are oversimplifying, just make a humorous excuse and say it anyway.
It's nice that there is such a thing as a KDE 3
User Guide to Fundamentals, and, here in the
forward --- where it is nailed down in one or two
sentences what KDE, Kubuntu and Ubuntu vs the
kernel are --- here would be a fine place to
discover its existence and have a link to it.
ABOUT THE COMMENTS AUTHOR:
I have used personal computers for over 30 years
but I am a Linux novice. My puzzlement over
obvious things ("What is KDE?" "Just the
desktop?") can be as great as a true noob, but
(to my frustration) I know just what I am missing
and how easy it would be to understand, if only someone would tell me.
I hope this helps. I am in the midst of a big
install, but soon I will forget the pain (and any
suggestions that might have been useful), so I
tried to capture what it feels like (capture the cognition, actually).
Make what you are creating the central place to
start. Let it link (selectively!) to the
definitive things in other parts of the
open-source, Ubuntu / Debbian world. Your
documentation cannot ever be complete, it cannot
be definitive ("Sue me if I'm wrong"). But it
can be the best place to go, the best place to
start. "Discovery begins here."
--jerry
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<html>
<body>
<br>
At 5/21/2013 01:49 AM Tuesday, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">написане Tue, 21 May
2013 04:35:46 +0300, Jerry Nelson <br>
<jerrynelson@speakeasy.net>:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">"Sudo" does not appear
in the alphabetized list.<br>
I see no topic heading on root, or privileges, or super user.<br><br>
I start the editor, I am not warned I have no privileges to change
the <br>
file, I<br>
work and cannot save my work. This is a dead end that wastes my
work.<br><br>
Please enrich the documentation to deal with "privileges",
"superuser"<br>
"sudo".<br><br>
Please add a warning if I lack r/w privileges for the file I have
opened.<br><br>
Please make a menu item that gets me into sudo mode even if the menu
is <br>
only<br>
informational and I must relaunch the app myself.<br><br>
I apologize in advance if there are answers to these issues in Kate
and <br>
I just<br>
did not see them.<br><br>
kdesudo kate?<br><br>
--jerry</blockquote><br>
Hi,<br><br>
Sure, it's a Kate bug (depends on developers PoV but closing
without <br>
prompt to save the file with a different name is not a nice
thing).<br><br>
Can you file a bug report against Kate [1]?<br><br>
@all Regarding documentation, can we just copy the old chapter
about <br>
su/sudo from KDE 3 User Guide to Fundamentals taking into account
that <br>
kdesudo is Ubuntu specific?<br><br>
Thanks in advance for your answers.<br><br>
Best regards,<br>
Yuri<br><br>
[1]
<a href="https://bugs.kde.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=kate&format=guided" eudora="autourl">
https://bugs.kde.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=kate&format=guided</a><br>
</blockquote>Yuri,<br>
I filed the bug report.<br><br>
When a noob starts to edit and forgets sudo, then can't save, what helps
a lot is education and usage examples.<br><br>
The glossary needs to have terms like "superuser" "root
user" "sudo" and "kdesudo". Even though
the concept "root" made an appearance in the blockbuster movie
"Jurassic Park", it still needs to be introduced to people for
whom it never existed, or who forgot the movie.<br><br>
For help about the relationships between things and their larger purposes
(rather than the syntax of the commands needed to accomplish those
purposes), the glossary is the avenue of entry. It matters.
<br><br>
I still wonder (perhaps others also): <br><br>
1. Is it OK to start a GUI app from the CLI with a sudo or kdesudo
command?<br><br>
(BTW, the Samba Server Configuration app, a GUI for system-config-samba,
cannot be started from the KDE Application Launcher Menu [mode].
Samba has a pop-up to ask for the user pwd, but the popup will not accept
any pwd.)<br><br>
2. What is the difference between sudo and kdesudo or may I use them
interchangeably?<br><br>
3. Usage examples rather than man page text is the goal. <br><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>"An
easy way to edit a file in a folder with permission restrictions (e.g.,
an important systems folder)<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>is to go
to the folder that contains the file and start Kate with <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>sudo kate
NameOfFile2Edit."<br><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>If you are
building a new system, have added a drive, and need to change the file
system table of drives, "fstab," you might do this: <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>pwd -
Where am I now? Print my Working Directory.<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>cd /
- Change my director back up to the root.<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>cd
/etc Change back down to the /etc folder.<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>sudo kate
fstab<br><br>
CONCERNING COPYING OLD DOCUMENTATION INTO NEW: ANSWER: YES, DO
IT.<br><br>
Yuri wrote 5/2013:<br>
@all Regarding documentation, can we just copy the old chapter
about <br>
su/sudo from KDE 3 User Guide to Fundamentals taking into account
that <br>
kdesudo is Ubuntu specific?<br><br>
Please divide all the documentation into <br><br>
1. FOREWORD<br><br>
2. DOCUMENTATION ABOUT PROGRAMS YOU WANT TO LAUNCH & USE<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>
alphabetical list<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>if you
break up the list, <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>you must
not divide it in any way that is different from <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>how the
Applications Launcher Menu [mode] chooses to divide the apps. <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>It is OK,
it is expected, that several programs will appear in both the "want
to launch and use" list,<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>and in the
"move around the operating system and change/fix stuff"
list. <br><br>
3. DOCUMENTATION ABOUT VISITING AND MOVING AROUND IN THE OPERATING SYSTEM
<br><br>
Documentation [about specific programs, and, rarely, particular commands]
that we need to add pgms: <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>
documentation to read if you want to run sudo apt-get install or find out
what that means,<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>or learn
how to look for other "packages" to install: the Muon Package
Manager, Ubuntu Software Center<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>sudo
apt-get install software-center <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Mention
the Panel and Widgets. Mention the search command in duckduckgo.com
!upackages software-center<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>"For
programs that launch all the programs, read about: link to
Application Launcher, others. " <br><br>
Documentation [of pgms, apps] to read if you are adding drives or
thinking about using a file system other than the current default:
gparted, <x-tab> </x-tab>KDE Partition Manager, fstab, mount,
umount, etc see also 3rd party pcmanfm . . .
mkfs.btrfs, apt-get install btrfs-tools.<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>
"gparted / view / file system support" seems a very buried,
indirect way to find out what file systems actually live in this new
world.<br><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>If there
was a list of supported or somewhat-supported file systems <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>(the list
does not have to definitive; we need a guide, not a guarantee; you write,
we wont' sue, just put in a disclaimer) <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>with a
list of file systems in the documentation , then under btrfs I might
discover that btrfs-progs is now btrfs-tools, <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>
whatever. The documentation would be the launch pad for discovery
that is my problem, not yours. <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>You are
figuring out how to create an overview that is also tied to specific
programs,<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>you are
not telling noobs to go out and kill themselves. <br><br>
Documentation to read for file management -- moving around the folder
tree, viewing and editing files, creating network shares,<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>what can
you do with Nepomuk and Strigi? Dolphin!! pcmanfm<br><br>
Documentation [which pgm names?] to read if you want info on the opsys
itself, or the underlying hardware<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>
KInfoCenter, System Monitor, maybe there are more . . .<br><br>
THE FOREWORD<br><br>
The FOREWORD can divide up the landscape in whatever is a convenient
way. <br><br>
I need to have several things mentioned, be told roughly their
relationship, and be told explicitly (just a link) where to get more
information about them. The essential, mysterious things for the
Foreword include:<br><br>
Ubuntu, Kubuntu: both are variants of Linux (you could reference a
famous book or Website), Kubuntu is the KDE flavor of Ubuntu, and KDE is
mostly graphics technology for changing how Kubuntu does its desktop
compared to Ubuntu. (References welcome. I suggest using only
famous institutionally stable ones that you won't have to change or
update often).<br><br>
I need a word about the relationship between the kernel and the overall
"Ubuntu" or "Kubuntu " operating system. Makes
me think I don't understand what a kernel is when people in this world
can run an old kernel with a new operating system (to save compatibility
with a major app they have in production). <br><br>
Now you are in a strong position to solve the mystery of the meaning of a
"Long Term Support" edition -- what must change, what
will not change if you choose this. <br><br>
You can give your own opinion ("In the humble opinion of some
Kubuntu community members . . . "). Every time you realize
that entire university course have been devoted to something you are
oversimplifying, just make a humorous excuse and say it anyway.<br><br>
It's nice that there is such a thing as a <b>KDE 3 User Guide to
Fundamentals,</b> and, here in the forward --- where it is nailed down in
one or two sentences what KDE, Kubuntu and Ubuntu vs the kernel are ---
here would be a fine place to discover its existence and have a link to
it.<br><br>
ABOUT THE COMMENTS AUTHOR:<br>
I have used personal computers for over 30 years but I am a Linux
novice. My puzzlement over obvious things ("What is KDE?"
"Just the desktop?") can be as great as a true noob, but (to my
frustration) I know just what I am missing and how easy it would be to
understand, if only someone would tell me.<br><br>
I hope this helps. I am in the midst of a big install, but soon I
will forget the pain (and any suggestions that might have been useful),
so I tried to capture what it feels like (capture the cognition,
actually).<br><br>
Make what you are creating the central place to start. Let it link
(selectively!) to the definitive things in other parts of the
open-source, Ubuntu / Debbian world. Your documentation cannot ever
be complete, it cannot be definitive ("Sue me if I'm
wrong"). But it can be the best place to go, the best
place to start. "Discovery begins here." <br><br>
--jerry<br><br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
_______________________________________________
kde-doc-english mailing list
kde-doc-english@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-doc-english
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic