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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Noatun - fix or throw it out
From:       Neil Stevens <neil () qualityassistant ! com>
Date:       2001-05-19 10:11:49
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On Saturday 19 May 2001 02:33 am, Ralf Nolden wrote:
 > change the playlist and click on one file to play out of the playlist.
 > that's where i get the crash. I'm using CVS always.

I just tried loading a stock noatun, switched to Tron, put some files in 
it, and clicked away.  No crash.

OK, what playlist is getting crash?  If Liszt is crashing, I'd disable 
it again.  If Tron is crashing, I want to fix it.  Each playlist is a 
separate plugin, written by a different person, with independent code.  
If one playlist is crashing, and the other two are not, then it's 
misleading to say all of Noatun is unstable.

 > Well, what am I supposed to do ? showing progress on kword and other KDE
 > stuff but when it comes to the media player I have to say, sorry there's
 > not even fixing up things ? Hey, people bash at me on shows and they
 > *ARE* using release versions.

Hold up.  You complained that we were *shipping* an unstable media 
player, and then complained about crashes in unshipped code.  That's 
what I was replying to.

 > Despite arts,
 > a media player that ships should work smoothly without crashes, and it
 > even should work when it's close to release like now.

But what if the crashes *are* in arts?  Do you suggest we remove aRts, 
and all the apps that depend on it?

 > > Use the released code, then.  There's no law that says that developing
 > > for KDE means you have to deprive yourself of these lovely releases we
 > > make.  When KDE 2.0 came out, weren't there a bunch of people still
 > > using KDE 1.1.2, while developing for 2.0?
 >
 > Ok, I'm installing 1.1.2 and show this off.

What about KDE 2.1.1?  That wouldn't be bad to show off.

Hopefully you're not preaching to the choir at these conferences.  KDE 
2.1.1 doesn't have IceWM decorations, the new taskbar option, or 
KBattleship, but someone who doesn't follow KDE already won't know 
that.  Just show off all the other great things that are already 
released in KDE.

 > yes, it does. People expect new things. But the thing is that I get
 > complaints about *RELEASE* stuff, not development stuff.

We've gotten complaints, too.  Many of them are traceable to bad 
packaging, and many others are caused by the use of the mpeglib arts 
plugin.  Should we choose what we ship in KDE based on what is easy for 
Red Hat or Debian to package?  As for the plugin, we now have other 
plugins available, for those who can't use mpeglib to choose from.

 > I'm using CVS
 > myself but if I *ever* hit a *usable* version of noatun, I won't go for
 > the risk to install kdemultimedia from scratch again to use things, but
 > to see if things work, I have to.

Well, if you follow CVS noatun, you probably will find it unstable most 
of the time.  The time between freezes is for adding features, and our 
dear Noatun lead developer takes full advantage of that.  Spending time 
fixing bugs when it's not bugfixing time yet doesn't seem to be Charles' 
style. :-)

 > I'm running the CVS version and it
 > crashes on startup started over the menu and it crashes when I change
 > the playlist and click on a playlist item to play.

I'm *really* interested in which playlist this is.  If all three crash 
in the same way, then call it a Noatun bug.  If it's just a crash on one 
playlist, and in a non-default playlist for that matter, then to blame 
all of Noatun just isn't fair to Charles.

-- 
Neil Stevens
neil@qualityassistant.com

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