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List: kde-devel
Subject: Re: "Gardening" old bugreports
From: Alexander Potashev <aspotashev () gmail ! com>
Date: 2023-02-11 17:13:56
Message-ID: CADMG6+_1nOF3RAWibuWkrtMma_kdBV-vKw7562gskDGDeB6Keg () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi,
Please exclude KTimeTracker.
Thanks!
On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 10:29 AM Nate Graham <nate@kde.org> wrote:
> We can turn it off for bugs reported by you, but I'm not sure "I'm
> getting too many emails" is a good reason to turn it off for whole
> products. These products aren't owned by you; they're community property
> and it's important for them to get triaged for the benefit of everyone.
> Nobody wins when Bugzilla fails to reflect an accurate state of reality.
>
> If those products are being actively triaged by you or someone else,
> that's a good reason. But if they're not, and stale bug reports and
> merge requests are piling up, that's a problem that needs to be fixed,
> and ignoring emails or preventing the Gardening team from doing part of
> their job isn't going to fix it.
>
> Nate
>
>
> On 1/29/23 02:23, Carl Schwan wrote:
> > Please exclude from the bug report reminder:
> >
> > koko
> > tokodon
> > kalendar
> > kde.org
> > planet.kde.org
> > www.kde.org
> > season.kde.org
> > KDE Mediawiki
> > and any bug reported by myself
> >
> > as well as the following projects for the MR reminder:
> >
> > koko
> > tokodon
> > kalendar
> > arianna
> > vail
> > arkade
> > basically everything in the websites namespace
> > and any MR created by myself
> >
> > I'm getting already way too many emails and I have an hard time keeping
> up
> > with them so if I can avoid getting more of them, that would be good.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Carl
> >
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > Le vendredi 27 janvier 2023 Ã 10:56 PM, Justin Zobel <
> justin.zobel@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >> Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
> >>
> >> Given the distribution of positive vs negative feedback, we plan to
> >> resume automatic bug triage of old non-wishlist bugs that have not
> >> been updated in over 2 years. If you would like to opt your product
> >> out of this initiative because you're able to keep on top of the
> >> manual bug triage work, please let us know and we'll be happy to
> >> accommodate you.
> >>
> >> Exclusions so far:
> >> - okteta
> >> - krita
> >> - any bug reported by sitter@kde.org
> >>
> >> Thanks again for the feedback!
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:10 PM Thomas Baumgart thb@net-bembel.de
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 22:39:45 CET Johannes Zarl-Zierl wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Am Donnerstag, 19. Jänner 2023, 12:26:08 CET schrieb Nicolas Fella:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Am 19.01.23 um 04:04 schrieb Justin:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The gardening team aims to find out if the bug reports are still
> >>>>>> relevant by involving the users who reported them in determining if
> >>>>>> they are still valid. This increases community involvement and helps
> >>>>>> KDE as there isn't anywhere near enough manpower to review the
> >>>>>> thousands upon thousands of bugs that haven't been touched in years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anecdotally many people don't like such automated changes being done
> to
> >>>>> their bugreports that don't actually engage with the content of the
> report.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, anecdotally you will mostly get feedback from people who don't
> like it.
> >>>> Unless something is exceptionally great, few people will take the
> time to
> >>>> speak out in favor of something that is already happening.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> The bugs that we are interacting with are ones that have not had any
> >>>>>> activity for over 2 years. We are simply trying to reinvigorate
> >>>>>> discussion on those bugs to see if they are still valid. If the user
> >>>>>> does not reply within the standard 30 day period after a bug is set
> to
> >>>>>> NEEDSINFO, it is automatically closed by the Bug Janitor.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am not simply closing bugs, so I do take offense that care is not
> >>>>>> applied.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Properly "triaging" old reports requires at least some level of
> >>>>> understanding of the project, codebase etc. I'm afraid there is no
> >>>>> simple solution to that and rule-based approaches aren't good enough.
> >>>>> Even taking things like CONFIRMED status or wishlist priority into
> >>>>> account assumes that these have actually been consistently applied.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a maintainer on a small project, I'm quite happy to get an
> occasional nudge
> >>>> on old reports. Yes, I do occasionally go over old reports to see if
> they are
> >>>> still valid, but having somebody else doing this methodically makes
> sure I
> >>>> don't gloss over some bug that could be closed or fixed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Having this done by someone else without too much internal knowledge
> is an
> >>>> absolute plus in my opinion. After all, if you want to clean up your
> attic,
> >>>> you try to find a helper who does not have the same emotional
> attachment as
> >>>> yourself.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I will halt it until it is approved by more developers. However if
> it
> >>>>>> is decided that it isn't wanted then the KDE as a whole will need to
> >>>>>> entice more people in sorting old bugs individually as it is clearly
> >>>>>> not a priority right now for the majority.
> >>>>
> >>>> Speaking for KPhotoAlbum, I really appreciate the bugzilla gardening.
> Thank
> >>>> you for doing it!
> >>>
> >>> I can second that for the KMyMoney project. An occasional poke and the
> >>> automated cleanup when no response arrives where it is needed helps a
> lot.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Thomas Baumgart
> >>>
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> With every day I come closer to the grave and learn something new.
> >>> It all happens because I have wandered around too much and stumbled
> into
> >>> the Linux world - which is a fantastic place to be! (Algis Kabaila †)
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Alexander Potashev
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi,<br></div><div><br></div>Please exclude \
KTimeTracker.<div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div \
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 10:29 AM Nate Graham <<a \
href="mailto:nate@kde.org">nate@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">We can turn it off for bugs reported by you, but \
I'm not sure "I'm <br> getting too many emails" is a good reason to \
turn it off for whole <br> products. These products aren't owned by you; \
they're community property <br> and it's important for them to get triaged \
for the benefit of everyone. <br> Nobody wins when Bugzilla fails to reflect an \
accurate state of reality.<br> <br>
If those products are being actively triaged by you or someone else, <br>
that's a good reason. But if they're not, and stale bug reports and <br>
merge requests are piling up, that's a problem that needs to be fixed, <br>
and ignoring emails or preventing the Gardening team from doing part of <br>
their job isn't going to fix it.<br>
<br>
Nate<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/29/23 02:23, Carl Schwan wrote:<br>
> Please exclude from the bug report reminder:<br>
> <br>
> koko<br>
> tokodon<br>
> kalendar<br>
> <a href="http://kde.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">kde.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://planet.kde.org" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">planet.kde.org</a><br> > <a href="http://www.kde.org" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.kde.org</a><br> > <a \
href="http://season.kde.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">season.kde.org</a><br> \
> KDE Mediawiki<br> > and any bug reported by myself<br>
> <br>
> as well as the following projects for the MR reminder:<br>
> <br>
> koko<br>
> tokodon<br>
> kalendar<br>
> arianna<br>
> vail<br>
> arkade<br>
> basically everything in the websites namespace<br>
> and any MR created by myself<br>
> <br>
> I'm getting already way too many emails and I have an hard time keeping \
up<br> > with them so if I can avoid getting more of them, that would be good.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Carl<br>
> <br>
> ------- Original Message -------<br>
> Le vendredi 27 janvier 2023 Ã 10:56 PM, Justin Zobel <<a \
href="mailto:justin.zobel@gmail.com" target="_blank">justin.zobel@gmail.com</a>> a \
écrit :<br> > <br>
> <br>
>> Thanks for the feedback, everyone.<br>
>><br>
>> Given the distribution of positive vs negative feedback, we plan to<br>
>> resume automatic bug triage of old non-wishlist bugs that have not<br>
>> been updated in over 2 years. If you would like to opt your product<br>
>> out of this initiative because you're able to keep on top of the<br>
>> manual bug triage work, please let us know and we'll be happy to<br>
>> accommodate you.<br>
>><br>
>> Exclusions so far:<br>
>> - okteta<br>
>> - krita<br>
>> - any bug reported by <a href="mailto:sitter@kde.org" \
target="_blank">sitter@kde.org</a><br> >><br>
>> Thanks again for the feedback!<br>
>><br>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:10 PM Thomas Baumgart <a \
href="mailto:thb@net-bembel.de" target="_blank">thb@net-bembel.de</a> wrote:<br> \
>><br> >>> On Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2023 22:39:45 CET Johannes \
Zarl-Zierl wrote:<br> >>><br>
>>>> Hi,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Am Donnerstag, 19. Jänner 2023, 12:26:08 CET schrieb Nicolas \
Fella:<br> >>>><br>
>>>>> Am 19.01.23 um 04:04 schrieb Justin:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> The gardening team aims to find out if the bug reports are \
still<br> >>>>>> relevant by involving the users who reported them \
in determining if<br> >>>>>> they are still valid. This increases \
community involvement and helps<br> >>>>>> KDE as there isn't \
anywhere near enough manpower to review the<br> >>>>>> thousands \
upon thousands of bugs that haven't been touched in years.<br> \
>>>>><br> >>>>> Anecdotally many people don't like \
such automated changes being done to<br> >>>>> their bugreports that \
don't actually engage with the content of the report.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Well, anecdotally you will mostly get feedback from people who \
don't like it.<br> >>>> Unless something is exceptionally great, few \
people will take the time to<br> >>>> speak out in favor of something \
that is already happening.<br> >>>><br>
>>>>>> The bugs that we are interacting with are ones that have not \
had any<br> >>>>>> activity for over 2 years. We are simply trying \
to reinvigorate<br> >>>>>> discussion on those bugs to see if they \
are still valid. If the user<br> >>>>>> does not reply within the \
standard 30 day period after a bug is set to<br> >>>>>> NEEDSINFO, \
it is automatically closed by the Bug Janitor.<br> >>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I am not simply closing bugs, so I do take offense that care \
is not<br> >>>>>> applied.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Properly "triaging" old reports requires at least some \
level of<br> >>>>> understanding of the project, codebase etc. I'm \
afraid there is no<br> >>>>> simple solution to that and rule-based \
approaches aren't good enough.<br> >>>>> Even taking things like \
CONFIRMED status or wishlist priority into<br> >>>>> account assumes \
that these have actually been consistently applied.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> As a maintainer on a small project, I'm quite happy to get an \
occasional nudge<br> >>>> on old reports. Yes, I do occasionally go over \
old reports to see if they are<br> >>>> still valid, but having somebody \
else doing this methodically makes sure I<br> >>>> don't gloss over \
some bug that could be closed or fixed.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Having this done by someone else without too much internal knowledge \
is an<br> >>>> absolute plus in my opinion. After all, if you want to \
clean up your attic,<br> >>>> you try to find a helper who does not have \
the same emotional attachment as<br> >>>> yourself.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>>> I will halt it until it is approved by more developers. \
However if it<br> >>>>>> is decided that it isn't wanted then \
the KDE as a whole will need to<br> >>>>>> entice more people in \
sorting old bugs individually as it is clearly<br> >>>>>> not a \
priority right now for the majority.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Speaking for KPhotoAlbum, I really appreciate the bugzilla \
gardening. Thank<br> >>>> you for doing it!<br>
>>><br>
>>> I can second that for the KMyMoney project. An occasional poke and \
the<br> >>> automated cleanup when no response arrives where it is needed \
helps a lot.<br> >>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thomas Baumgart<br>
>>><br>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>> With every day I come closer to the grave and learn something new.<br>
>>> It all happens because I have wandered around too much and stumbled \
into<br> >>> the Linux world - which is a fantastic place to be! (Algis \
Kabaila †)<br> >>> \
-------------------------------------------------------------<br> \
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_signature">Alexander Potashev</div>
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