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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Gitlab Evaluation & Migration
From:       Martin_Flöser <mgraesslin () kde ! org>
Date:       2019-02-25 16:54:26
Message-ID: 6f7e3b310c1d96c9a03c8752653b1f66 () kde ! org
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Am 2019-02-24 21:03, schrieb Ben Cooksley:
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 8:31 AM Martin Flöser <mgraesslin@kde.org> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> Am 2019-02-23 10:44, schrieb Ben Cooksley:
>> > Hi all,
>> 
>> > Based on all of the above we'd like to propose migrating towards
>> > Gitlab. Comments?
>> 
>> I'm totally honest here: I'm not happy about yet another migration. 
>> This
>> will be the fifth reviewing toolkit I use for KDE (reviewboard for 
>> svn,
>> reviewboard for git, gerrit, phabricator and now gitlab). Each of the
>> transitions was painful for everyone involved and the commit rate to 
>> the
>> project I was involved suffered from the transitions. As an example 
>> for
>> the problems: KWin's hacking document still mentions reviewboard:
>> https://community.kde.org/KWin/Hacking#Submitting_Changes
> 
> Please don't over exaggerate the numbers here.
> 
> Gerrit was never an official system for reviews, it was something that
> was evaluated by a small group and which was never proceeded with as
> an official whole-of-KDE solution.
> Reviewboard for SVN/Git are basically the same thing (just a different
> instance url), so this is only really the third system, not the fifth

You missed the point. What I wrote is that the transitions were painful 
- also the very simple transition from svn.reviewboard to 
git.reviewboard was painful. That it was the same tool doesn't matter. 
It was still a transition, it meant looking at two places, lost reviews, 
update to documentation, change of workflow, etc. etc.

Also gerrit was a tool I used for KDE hacking. I wrote it will be the 
fifth toolkit for me. That's true for me and I don't over exaggerate any 
numbers here.

> 
> Please also bear in mind that we've been on Git now for coming up on 9
> years (I have mails for git.kde.org starting around June 2010) so
> switching systems twice in that time frame as software continues to
> mature seems quite reasonable to me.

Please keep also in mind that the git transition took a long time and 
started for different projects at different times. That you as sysadmin 
had mails going back so long does not mean others as well. I consider it 
as a transition too early after Phabricator was praised so much. I was 
sure that this would be a solution for the next decade.

> 
>> 
>> I'm not pleased that we want to transit to another solution after just 
>> a
>> few years. I understand that there is the feeling that our phabricator
>> solution limits contributions from newcomers. I don't believe that and
>> are afraid of the long term developers walking away due to the changes
>> (which is something I saw with every transition). I don't know whether 
>> I
>> will continue to contribute if I have to relearn the tooling - my time
>> for KDE is currently very limited. If I have an hour to hack and have 
>> to
>> spend half the time on how to contribute now, that sucks and lowers
>> motivation.
> 
> If you've worked with Github before then Gitlab is very similar, so
> the learning curve shouldn't be too steep.

I haven't worked with github.

> 
>> 
>> Changing the tooling will not solve any of the contribution problems.
>> Instead we introduce new ones like all documentation going out of 
>> life.
>> 
>> Please consider whether the advantages are really worth it.
> 
> Please also see my comments re. Phabricator upstream as to part of the
> reason why we're considering this, along with the feedback we received
> at Akademy last year.

Well I remember how phabricator was praised for the very responsive 
team. That seems to have changed. But who guarantees that gitlab will 
continue to be responsive and cooperative? Will we have to switch again 
if the team stops to be responsive?

You asked for comments. I gave comment that I'm not pleased about yet 
another transition. Please keep that in mind. It means learning and 
interrupted workflows for every one. If you have already decided and 
don't want anybody to point out that transitions are painful, please 
don't ask for comments. Instead say that sysadmins decided. That's at 
least honest - your reply gives me the feeling the decision is already 
done and negative feedback was not expected. Sorry to feel this way.

Cheers
Martin
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