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List: kde-devel
Subject: Re: Nepomuk in 4.13 and beyond
From: Ignacio Serantes <kde () aynoa ! net>
Date: 2013-12-17 19:09:21
Message-ID: CAKbQbApYVOR8TKMcJv1x3u9b9cjz3zxEWKt3u2ksvPvay1Hikg () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Kevin Krammer <krammer@kde.org> wrote:
> Hi Ignacio,
>
> On Tuesday, 2013-12-17, 17:55:53, Ignacio Serantes wrote:
> > Hi Lindsay,
> >
> > You are right, a higher layer will be needed and this is not a Baloo job
> > but if you want to build a layer like this Baloo must run as a service
> and
> > not as a KDE user level.
> >
> > From my point of view running Nepomuk at user level was a mistake and I
> > would like Baloo don't do the same mistake because I can't share my
> actual
> > information with my computers and devices and, again as my point of view,
> > this is old computing.
>
> Maybe you could elaborate how a system service would facilitate this kind
> of
> sharing while a session service does not.
>
Well, because I can't do a query if service is not running unless I'm
replicating all my data over all my computers. If I have a big database
this would be impossible because you must wait for a long time until your
data was synchronized. If you are running this as a service you could
connect to that server and you don't need to synchronize this data. A big
database in a mobile or tablet could be problematic because is common you
have gigas in your PCs but megas in your mobile devices.
I can see how it makes it easier to share the data with other users on the
> same machine, but as far as I can tell it does not make any difference as
> far
> as other machines are concerned.
>
> > Obviously this was my petitions :), I'm not interested at all in Akonadi,
> > is old computing too for people who works in only one computer, and I
> can't
> > share my Nepomuk's data with all my devices so I think a software
> developed
> > in 2013 supports 2013 software requirements.
>
> I think you might have some misconceptions about Akonadi but you are
> welcome
> to proof me wrong :)
>
> Probably, when Akonady has a check to disable it maybe I change my mind ;).
> A uniform and data type agnostic access layer sounds pretty state of the
> art
> to me.
>
Yes, but a single user one running in your user session and not as a
service when you don't want it not. With so many years of development I'm
assuming Akonadi works well for a single user in a single user computer
with only one session opened :). But this is not about Akonadi, is about
Baloo :).
>
> > For me it will be terrific when I tag, comment or rate a file in one of
> my
> > devices and automatically this information will be available in all my
> > devices and if Baloo works at user level this will be impossible.
>
> I don't see why this would be impossible.
> That's like saying "I'd like my email to be marked unread on all my
> computer
> automatically but if Akonadi wokrs at the user level this will be
> impossible".
> Which would be demonstratably wrong :)
>
Yes, you are right, but this is achieved with a synchronization method. As
I commented in my first reply I see problems synchronizing this information
because different hardware in your devices.
Let's try an example. I have over 50.000 emails in my Akonadi database with
the synchronization approach if I want to search for a mail tagged as "My
tag" and dated two years ago I will need all 50.000 emails metadata in all
my devices or search will fail.
In my case I have a tablet, two mobiles (Android and iPhone), and four
computers (one in my job) so I need all this data synchronized in 7 devices
or this metadata is useless because is not reliable. The worst part is when
I'm in a customer office working and the only method to connect to the
world is a client computer because 3G is not working so, in brief, my
salvation is a server where all my mail is stored with my metadata and
accessible from any kind device with a browser.
This is obviously my point of view :) but I would like this kind of stuff
will be available for me and for other users.
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin
> --
> Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer
> KDE user support, developer mentoring
>
>
> >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> unsubscribe <<
>
>
--
Best wishes,
Ignacio
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">Hi<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, \
Dec 17, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Kevin Krammer <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:krammer@kde.org" target="_blank">krammer@kde.org</a>></span> \
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Ignacio,<br> <div class="im"><br>
On Tuesday, 2013-12-17, 17:55:53, Ignacio Serantes wrote:<br>
> Hi Lindsay,<br>
><br>
> You are right, a higher layer will be needed and this is not a Baloo job<br>
> but if you want to build a layer like this Baloo must run as a service and<br>
> not as a KDE user level.<br>
><br>
> From my point of view running Nepomuk at user level was a mistake and I<br>
> would like Baloo don't do the same mistake because I can't share my \
actual<br> > information with my computers and devices and, again as my point of \
view,<br> > this is old computing.<br>
<br>
</div>Maybe you could elaborate how a system service would facilitate this kind \
of<br> sharing while a session service does not.<br></blockquote><div> \
</div><div>Well, because I can't do a query if service is not running unless \
I'm replicating all my data over all my computers. If I have a big database this \
would be impossible because you must wait for a long time until your data was \
synchronized. If you are running this as a service you could connect to that server \
and you don't need to synchronize this data. A big database in a mobile or tablet \
could be problematic because is common you have gigas in your PCs but megas in your \
mobile devices.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I can see how it makes it easier \
to share the data with other users on the<br> same machine, but as far as I can tell \
it does not make any difference as far<br> as other machines are concerned.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Obviously this was my petitions :), I'm not interested at all in \
Akonadi,<br> > is old computing too for people who works in only one computer, and \
I can't<br> > share my Nepomuk's data with all my devices so I think a \
software developed<br> > in 2013 supports 2013 software requirements.<br>
<br>
</div>I think you might have some misconceptions about Akonadi but you are \
welcome<br> to proof me wrong :)<br>
<br></blockquote><div>Probably, when Akonady has a check to disable it maybe I change \
my mind ;).</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> A uniform and data type agnostic \
access layer sounds pretty state of the art<br> to \
me.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, but a single user one running in your \
user session and not as a service when you don't want it not. With so many years \
of development I'm assuming Akonadi works well for a single user in a single user \
computer with only one session opened :). But this is not about Akonadi, is about \
Baloo :).</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div class="im"><br>
> For me it will be terrific when I tag, comment or rate a file in one of my<br>
> devices and automatically this information will be available in all my<br>
> devices and if Baloo works at user level this will be impossible.<br>
<br>
</div>I don't see why this would be impossible.<br>
That's like saying "I'd like my email to be marked unread on all my \
computer<br> automatically but if Akonadi wokrs at the user level this will be \
impossible".<br> Which would be demonstratably wrong \
:)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, you are right, but this is achieved with \
a synchronization method. As I commented in my first reply I see problems \
synchronizing this information because different hardware in your devices. <br>
<br>Let's try an example. I have over 50.000 emails in my Akonadi database with \
the synchronization approach if I want to search for a mail tagged as "My \
tag" and dated two years ago I will need all 50.000 emails metadata in all my \
devices or search will fail.<br>
<br>In my case I have a tablet, two mobiles (Android and iPhone), and four computers \
(one in my job) so I need all this data synchronized in 7 devices or this metadata is \
useless because is not reliable. The worst part is when I'm in a customer office \
working and the only method to connect to the world is a client computer because 3G \
is not working so, in brief, my salvation is a server where all my mail is stored \
with my metadata and accessible from any kind device with a browser.<br>
<br>This is obviously my point of view :) but I would like this kind of stuff will be \
available for me and for other users.<br><br></div><div> </div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Kevin<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">--<br>
Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer<br>
KDE user support, developer mentoring<br>
</font></span><br><br>
>> Visit <a href="http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub" \
target="_blank">http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub</a> to \
unsubscribe <<<br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- \
<br>Best wishes,<div>Ignacio</div><div><br></div> </div></div>
>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
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