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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: KDE4: missing features from KDE3
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date:       2009-08-04 21:10:16
Message-ID: 200908041510.16965.aseigo () kde ! org
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On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Anne Wilson wrote:
> Now you're making me really angry. 

i'm sorry you're upset, that sucks. :( try and read what i'm writing as a call 
for collective responsibility instead of having to rely on individual heroics 
or a constant insult-defense cycle.

i really appreciate what you and other positive thinking people do in the KDE 
community. but somehow we need to find a way to talk frankly about the 
challenges we face. otherwise a deepening rift will continue to spread between 
users and developers, throwing away so much effort so many people put into 
erasing that rift in past years.

so let's try and dialog about what can actually be done about this, or about 
what the shape of the problem actually is. maybe this isn't the best place for 
it. probably not. but it's a start. if you can think of a more appropriate and 
useful place to talk about this, just name it and i'll be there. :)

(btw, the easy thing for me is to just walk away from this and go "typical 
f/oss user community dynamics" and pretend it isn't bad and can't be improved 
upon anyways. but i don't like where we are as a whole (not necessarily as 
individuals, however :) and so feel like it's worth it to work through it)

> You have no idea how often ordinary
> caring users do stand up to be counted, defending developers.

i'm not looking for developers to be defended. that defending has to happen at 
all is a symptom of the problem, really. there's a -cultural- malaise amongst 
the body of users where it is considered just fine to pick at each other, 
throw tantrums, the whole 9 yards. and then this results in others needing to 
stand up and be counted. etc, etc. 

we don't accept that kind of behavior between contributors to the project, and 
not because we police it as much as we just don't have it as part of our 
project's culture.

now, the people who cause grief (and the people who put salve on it) are not 
usually here-and-gone type people. they tend to be part of a group of people 
who interact over a long period of time. that means there's some sort of 
implied cultural system that goes along with it. and right now, that culture 
states that free-for-alls are just fine.

i believe that it shouldn't be necessary for users to have to stand up and be 
counted and defend contributors and what not so often. unfortunately, our user 
community is anarchistic rather than based on any actual agreements or shared 
values outside of "i am interested in open source and/or kde in specific" and 
it has devolved to the point of being unfriendly to deal with for 
contributors.

there are shining points of light in the sky, absolutely. including people 
such as yourself, Anne. your energy should be able to go to better things that 
dealing with the latest user outbreak. it's like medieval times out there 
where the "peasants" revolt. and really, i think that's _part_ of the 
challenge:

too many of the involved user population see themselves as disconnected, 
second class citizens and as such rise up with a lot more poison than is ever 
necessary. they seem to feel that the big bad developers are out to get them 
and instead of working with us they have to wrestle with us.

this just alienates the contributors from the involved users more and more and 
_creates_ a two-tiered society in some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

it all needs to be deescalated, and the main drive will have to come from 
within the user community. i can't do it because i am part of the "developer" 
caste, separate from "them", in too many eyes. there needs to be some 
positive, productive movement that is more attractive and enjoyable and 
rewarding that people can rally around and in the process marginalize the 
trouble behaviours.

it's not a simple issue; it existed before kde 4 was around.

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Software

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