--===============0687632662== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1361534.knM7yKXq2O"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart1361534.knM7yKXq2O Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Tuesday 04 August 2009 10:29:24 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > > On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Pau Garcia i Quiles wrote: > > > People still complain about KDE3 features they miss in KDE4 (for > > > instance: > > > > yes, of course they will. because people are people. there's a certain > > sort of bullying going on there where certain individuals, fewer with > > each release i might add, feel that if they just SHOUT LOUD AND > > ANNOYINGLY ENOUGH AT US that we'll relent, break our designs, go back on > > what we're trying to do and give them what they are used to at the > > expense of everyone else. > > This is the usual *very* vocal minority - they will never be convinced, a= nd > can only be ignored. unfortunately they are spoiling the pot at places like bugs.kde.org for=20 everyone else. ignoring them tends to result in not paying much attention t= o=20 feature requests made on bugs.kde.org. i know of several projects in KDE th= at=20 have ended up there. > > half the things affecting plasma there are bugs (and not all in plasma, > > btw) and most of the rest are WONTFIXes. yes, things change. some design > > decisions that bring benefits mean other things that were done before > > aren't going to happen anymore. > > WONTFIX is a major annoyance.=20 it's also part of reality. not every thing can be or should be implemented.= =20 > People might feel better if they are given > an explanation of why something won't be fixed. IME, usually they don't. more of than not they will argue back. i don't min= d=20 someone trying to explain themselves more and having one or two back-and-fo= rth=20 messages on bugs.kde.org. but way too often the reporter takes it very=20 seriously and starts arguing about it, eventually often making disparaging= =20 remarks about the developer's attitude, competence, care, etc. > I totally sympathise with > those who feel slighted when WONTFIX is all they see on their bug report. the user community needs some guidance and direction in this then. if they= =20 take it personally, they have it all wrong. i've had a number of requests=20 marked as WONTFIX in KDE and elsewhere. i sometimes agreed, sometimes didn'= t.=20 it's not a reason to get upset about it. most important is to realize that this is a shared item we're using. if i w= ant=20 my very own thing, i have the source code to make my own special thing.=20 otherwise, i'm sharing this software with millions of others and i have to= =20 remember that and take into consideration that sharing it with everyone mea= ns=20 compromise at times, yes, but it also means a get a lot more than i ever co= uld=20 if i was using something "just for me" (since very few people would work on= =20 such a thing). the user community that interacts with F/OSS projects such as KDE really ne= eds=20 to start understanding how this all works and taking some responsibility in= =20 their actions. as developers we're expected to be paragons of behavior, but= =20 really it's cooperative between all of us. except that the user community=20 tends to still lack a clear set of shared values and ethics when it comes t= o=20 these things. > > you know what's REALLY funny about that page on en.opensuse.org? it > > doesn't mention _at all_ the actually useful features that are missing, > > like a plasmoid to show a random submenu of the apps menu so you can dr= ag > > and drop it from kickoff into the pane (or wherever) and just get that > > branch of them. > > This is one of the most frequently bemoaned lacks on the user list. IMO = it sure; reality is that a small number of people in the real world need such = a=20 thing and we have had a large number of other things to take care of that=20 impact even more people. that and sometimes we'd like to work on things tha= t=20 are enjoyable and useful to us. if it's really important, why has nobody=20 stepped up to do it? where is my motivation to work on it? (answer: complet= ely=20 destroyed for 4.3 by the rudeness of the only response i received back from= =20 saying "yes, this needs to be done. won't be the for 4.3 though.") > > even more "funny" is that when i commented on the wishlist item for that > > and noted that we should implement it but that it wouldn't be in this > > release i got yelled at by two different people on the report, complete= ly > > without cause. > > > > if the community of users wants to see improvement they can pick up a > > text editor and get their hands dirty, pay / coerce someone else to do = so > > or shut up and be patient. > > Unkind and unrealistic. Without bug/wish reports how do you know what > features people value? i'm just fine with reports. i don't like it being scattered in N different= =20 places (wiki lists, blog entries, etc ) nor do i have any stomach for the=20 users who get upset when we acknowledge the need but say "we haven't done i= t=20 yet" > Again, just a kind reply of 'coming, but not yet' > is not too much to ask, but often too much to get. well, saying "coming, but not yet" is often met with unfriendly responses.= =20 this encourages the developers to just avoid commenting on any wishlist=20 entries that come in as the response to anything that isn't "i'll do it rig= ht=20 now just as you asked" has a high risk of earning a poor response. the user community is making a bed for itself that i don't think it's going= to=20 want to lie in. =2D-=20 Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Software --nextPart1361534.knM7yKXq2O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkp4dyoACgkQ1rcusafx20MPmgCeIFmKmIej2yYrs79QmZpY3Mw3 vHQAn2aPgbE0XALyrl62BVvQM+Vvk3nv =pCmm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1361534.knM7yKXq2O-- --===============0687632662== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe << --===============0687632662==--