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List: kde-devel
Subject: Re: Open source vs Closed source... What makes Open Source tick.
From: viwe lolwane <ghostnet2000 () gmail ! com>
Date: 2009-07-29 8:07:16
Message-ID: 6d02055d0907290107m24eb4b6fgc9333fe12f70aae0 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi juan.
please could you please answer the real question.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Juan De Vincenzo <juandevincenzo@gmail.com
> wrote:
> I just have one thing to tell you: your trolling skills are very poor...
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:51 AM, viwe lolwane<ghostnet2000@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Michael
> > If 7 versions of Microsoft Operating system are all craps why is it that
> > they still up today
> > dominate the desktop market, even when KDE is distributed for free sure
> if
> > KDE was
> > such a good system users would have opted to use linux/KDE instead of
> > Microsoft OS. I
> > doubt that KDE is user friendly than Microsoft, I have seen many post
> > complaining about
> > userbility on this mailing list, it seem that the user friendly of KDE
> still
> > needs to be looked
> > at.
> > The model that open source uses, I would think that it has many weakness
> for
> > example it is
> > very hard for unexperienced programmers to get into the movement because
> of
> > very poooooor
> > documentation, For someone to contribute to the program he must be a very
> > skilled developer.
> > I know there are areas where non developers can work on like translation
> but
> > my focus is really
> > on the development side.
> > I would like to end this post by asking this question, Is it possible
> that
> > someday linux will dominate
> > the market or Microsoft is here to stay?
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:04 AM, Michael Howell <mhowell123@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tuesday 28 July 2009 02:15:50 viwe lolwane wrote:
> >> > Hi everyone.
> >> > Just have a general question on open source, I would like to know what
> >> > is
> >> > the reason behind
> >> > the success of open source development, looking at the success of
> >> > products
> >> > like linux, kde
> >> > this are world class software products.. when you look at the
> >> > development
> >> > process of open
> >> > source I can deduce that documentation is rare, the developers operate
> >> > on
> >> > environments like
> >> > mailing list, forums, they rarely meet.
> >> >
> >> > How are reliable are open source softwares compared to closed source
> >> > softwares developed
> >> > like organizations, and i would also like to compare the development
> >> > process used by both. is
> >> > it fair to say that open source software must be full of bugs and
> errors
> >> > compared to closed
> >> > source because it is designed by volunteers but again it has been
> >> > successful. is the future
> >> > of development an open source development process or are we doomed to
> >> > fail?
> >> >
> >> > What is really good about Open Source, and what are the disadvantages.
> >> Firstly: Open Source software is written by individuals and companies.
> >> Closed
> >> Source software is written by companies and individuals. For example,
> >> Trolltech wrote Qt, which backs KDE, and many companies have written
> >> drivers
> >> inside Linux.
> >>
> >> Now, to compare distributed OSS development vs. non-distributed CSS
> >> development (in other words, the typical models for both).
> >>
> >> In a distributed OSS model, all defects are immediately visible: already
> >> discovered ones are in the bug tracker, and unknown ones are visible in
> >> the
> >> code, ready to be found. Problems can be found before they are
> triggered,
> >> giving well-tested OSS, such as KDE3.5 very stable.
> >>
> >> In a top-down CSS model, defects are kept secret, to give investigators
> >> the
> >> illusion that the software is bug free. Bugs can last for a very long
> time
> >> in
> >> virtually unchanged code for years.
> >>
> >> In a distributed OSS model, vendor lock-in is impossible. Since the code
> >> is
> >> available, interoperability can easily exist. Giving KDE as the example
> >> again,
> >> we can look at the KIO, KParts, Plasma, etc that allow for KDE apps to
> >> work
> >> and act the same.
> >>
> >> In a top-down CSS model, the same work-together attitude does not exist.
> >> The
> >> win32 APIs are crap (yes, I said it, the raw win32 APIs are crap crap
> >> crap);
> >> even Microsoft-developed software usually contains their own layers
> >> between
> >> the win32 APIs and internal program structures. Microsoft Office and
> >> Windows
> >> Media Player are shining examples: neither of them use anything
> resembling
> >> the
> >> appearance of any other Windows applications. This can also be argued as
> >> being
> >> the fault of Microsoft having no UI standards, except that KDE3 didn't
> >> have
> >> any UI standards, either, but was still very consistent.
> >>
> >> In a distributed OSS model, the people making the software want good
> >> software.
> >> Often, they wish to use the software they are making. This can be a very
> >> good
> >> thing, because it means that the software will not include annoyware,
> will
> >> not
> >> contain DRM, etc. It can be a bad thing, too, because the software is
> >> often
> >> not very user-friendly.
> >>
> >> In a top-down CSS model, software is made to be sold, and to be
> sell-able.
> >> Things such as nagware, DRM, crippleware, etc, do exist. As an extreme
> >> example, look at the seven (yes, 7) versions of Windows 7. Microsoft
> wants
> >> people to buy the same software twice, and makes the software to ensure
> >> that
> >> happens by selling people crippleware to start with, and ensure that you
> >> want
> >> the Ultimate version, even if you'll never use the features it provides,
> >> by
> >> not making the difference clear.
> >> However, this also means that the software will be designed to be user-
> >> friendly, so that people will buy it.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Please don't send HTML mail. If you forward mail, please remove the
> >> garbage.
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Michael Howell
> >> mhowell123@gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> >> >> unsubscribe <<
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > viwe lolwane.
> > S A Square Kilometer Array Telescope
> >
> > cell +2782 367 9417
> > Phone (w) :021 531 7282
> > Fax:021 531 9761
> > Website: www.ska.ac.za
> >
> >
> >>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> unsubscribe
> >>> <<
> >
> >
>
> >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> unsubscribe <<
>
--
viwe lolwane.
S A Square Kilometer Array Telescope
cell +2782 367 9417
Phone (w) :021 531 7282
Fax:021 531 9761
Website: www.ska.ac.za
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Hi juan.<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>please could you please \
answer the real question.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at \
10:02 AM, Juan De Vincenzo <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:juandevincenzo@gmail.com">juandevincenzo@gmail.com</a>></span> \
wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I just have one thing to tell you: your trolling skills \
are very poor...<br> <div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:51 AM, viwe lolwane<<a \
href="mailto:ghostnet2000@gmail.com">ghostnet2000@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> > \
Hi Michael<br> > If 7 versions of Microsoft Operating system are all craps why is \
it that<br> > they still up today<br>
> dominate the desktop market, even when KDE is distributed for free sure if<br>
> KDE was<br>
> such a good system users would have opted to use linux/KDE instead of<br>
> Microsoft OS. I<br>
> doubt that KDE is user friendly than Microsoft, I have seen many post<br>
> complaining about<br>
> userbility on this mailing list, it seem that the user friendly of KDE still<br>
> needs to be looked<br>
> at.<br>
> The model that open source uses, I would think that it has many weakness for<br>
> example it is<br>
> very hard for unexperienced programmers to get into the movement because of<br>
> very poooooor<br>
> documentation, For someone to contribute to the program he must be a very<br>
> skilled developer.<br>
> I know there are areas where non developers can work on like translation but<br>
> my focus is really<br>
> on the development side.<br>
> I would like to end this post by asking this question, Is it possible that<br>
> someday linux will dominate<br>
> the market or Microsoft is here to stay?<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:04 AM, Michael Howell <<a \
href="mailto:mhowell123@gmail.com">mhowell123@gmail.com</a>><br> > wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Tuesday 28 July 2009 02:15:50 viwe lolwane wrote:<br>
>> > Hi everyone.<br>
>> > Just have a general question on open source, I would like to know \
what<br> >> > is<br>
>> > the reason behind<br>
>> > the success of open source development, looking at the success of<br>
>> > products<br>
>> > like linux, kde<br>
>> > this are world class software products.. when you look at the<br>
>> > development<br>
>> > process of open<br>
>> > source I can deduce that documentation is rare, the developers \
operate<br> >> > on<br>
>> > environments like<br>
>> > mailing list, forums, they rarely meet.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > How are reliable are open source softwares compared to closed \
source<br> >> > softwares developed<br>
>> > like organizations, and i would also like to compare the \
development<br> >> > process used by both. is<br>
>> > it fair to say that open source software must be full of bugs and \
errors<br> >> > compared to closed<br>
>> > source because it is designed by volunteers but again it has been<br>
>> > successful. is the future<br>
>> > of development an open source development process or are we doomed \
to<br> >> > fail?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > What is really good about Open Source, and what are the \
disadvantages.<br> >> Firstly: Open Source software is written by individuals \
and companies.<br> >> Closed<br>
>> Source software is written by companies and individuals. For example,<br>
>> Trolltech wrote Qt, which backs KDE, and many companies have written<br>
>> drivers<br>
>> inside Linux.<br>
>><br>
>> Now, to compare distributed OSS development vs. non-distributed CSS<br>
>> development (in other words, the typical models for both).<br>
>><br>
>> In a distributed OSS model, all defects are immediately visible: already<br>
>> discovered ones are in the bug tracker, and unknown ones are visible in<br>
>> the<br>
>> code, ready to be found. Problems can be found before they are \
triggered,<br> >> giving well-tested OSS, such as KDE3.5 very stable.<br>
>><br>
>> In a top-down CSS model, defects are kept secret, to give investigators<br>
>> the<br>
>> illusion that the software is bug free. Bugs can last for a very long \
time<br> >> in<br>
>> virtually unchanged code for years.<br>
>><br>
>> In a distributed OSS model, vendor lock-in is impossible. Since the code<br>
>> is<br>
>> available, interoperability can easily exist. Giving KDE as the example<br>
>> again,<br>
>> we can look at the KIO, KParts, Plasma, etc that allow for KDE apps to<br>
>> work<br>
>> and act the same.<br>
>><br>
>> In a top-down CSS model, the same work-together attitude does not exist.<br>
>> The<br>
>> win32 APIs are crap (yes, I said it, the raw win32 APIs are crap crap<br>
>> crap);<br>
>> even Microsoft-developed software usually contains their own layers<br>
>> between<br>
>> the win32 APIs and internal program structures. Microsoft Office and<br>
>> Windows<br>
>> Media Player are shining examples: neither of them use anything \
resembling<br> >> the<br>
>> appearance of any other Windows applications. This can also be argued as<br>
>> being<br>
>> the fault of Microsoft having no UI standards, except that KDE3 \
didn't<br> >> have<br>
>> any UI standards, either, but was still very consistent.<br>
>><br>
>> In a distributed OSS model, the people making the software want good<br>
>> software.<br>
>> Often, they wish to use the software they are making. This can be a very<br>
>> good<br>
>> thing, because it means that the software will not include annoyware, \
will<br> >> not<br>
>> contain DRM, etc. It can be a bad thing, too, because the software is<br>
>> often<br>
>> not very user-friendly.<br>
>><br>
>> In a top-down CSS model, software is made to be sold, and to be \
sell-able.<br> >> Things such as nagware, DRM, crippleware, etc, do exist. As \
an extreme<br> >> example, look at the seven (yes, 7) versions of Windows 7. \
Microsoft wants<br> >> people to buy the same software twice, and makes the \
software to ensure<br> >> that<br>
>> happens by selling people crippleware to start with, and ensure that you<br>
>> want<br>
>> the Ultimate version, even if you'll never use the features it \
provides,<br> >> by<br>
>> not making the difference clear.<br>
>> However, this also means that the software will be designed to be user-<br>
>> friendly, so that people will buy it.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Please don't send HTML mail. If you forward mail, please remove the<br>
>> garbage.<br>
>> Thanks!<br>
>><br>
>> Michael Howell<br>
>> <a href="mailto:mhowell123@gmail.com">mhowell123@gmail.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> >> Visit <a \
href="http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub" \
target="_blank">http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub</a> to<br> \
>> >> unsubscribe <<<br> >><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> viwe lolwane.<br>
> S A Square Kilometer Array Telescope<br>
><br>
> cell +2782 367 9417<br>
> Phone (w) :021 531 7282<br>
> Fax:021 531 9761<br>
> Website: <a href="http://www.ska.ac.za" target="_blank">www.ska.ac.za</a><br>
><br>
><br>
>>> Visit <a href="http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub" \
target="_blank">http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub</a> to \
unsubscribe<br> >>> <<<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
>> Visit <a href="http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub" \
target="_blank">http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub</a> to \
unsubscribe <<<br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- \
<br>viwe lolwane. <br>S A Square Kilometer Array Telescope<br><br>cell +2782 367 \
9417<br>Phone (w) :021 531 7282<br>Fax:021 531 9761<br>Website: <a \
href="http://www.ska.ac.za">www.ska.ac.za</a><br>
</div>
>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
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