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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: How to configure konqueror to show KB and MB instead of KiB and
From:       Michael Pyne <mpyne () kde ! org>
Date:       2009-07-10 23:27:57
Message-ID: 200907101927.57680.mpyne () kde ! org
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On Friday 10 July 2009 12:07:37 Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> You also wrote:
> > It would be nice of these people to name it like a new unit instead
> > of stealing a perfectly good, working unit name, in current use by
> > millions around the world.
>
> ...and I agree. Unfortunately, the people that decided to misuse "kilo"
> didn't decide to name it like a new unit and instead stole a perfectly
> good, working unit name*, in current use by millions around the world.

Except you're not "punishing" the perpetrators here, so please dismount the 
high horse. ;)

> >> The people designing computers were largely mathematicians. As
> >> mathematicians, they knew better than to do something as confusing as
> >> that. Laziness had everything to do with it.
> >
> > Or maybe they felt it wasn't confusing (because it's not)?
>
> SI says "kiloXXX" = "1000 XXX". CS says "kilobyte = 1024 bytes".
>
> <sarcasm>Nope, not confusing at all</sarcasm>.

Ian Wadham has already listed quite a few other examples of things that are 
*initially* confusing that end up requiring explanation but haven't been 
changed due to their prevalence in existing practice.  I would recommend 
reading his email if you haven't already.

> > ... that's my point.  When people get interested they will look up KB and
> > see that "it means 1024 hur hur hur".
>
> ...or they've had high school science (in the U.S.) and "know" that
> "kilo" = 1000. Except - surprise! - that's wrong in this case.

If they had high school science they'd know that K is something completely 
different from k. (Kelvin versus kilo)

> (In sensible countries - i.e. those not using imperial - they probably
> learn SI even earlier, since it is relevant to every day life. Reminds
> me of English, really. 'Always put the "i" before the "e" when the
> letters occur together... except, you know, <list of excaptions>'.

English is hardly the only language with a list of exceptions to its rules. ;)

> > KDE is supposed to be innovative. See Plasma, KIO, KParts, and Nepomuk.
> > Why not be innovative again, and lead the way with unambiguous measures.
> > [T]hat's why I haven't once proposed changing away from kibibytes by
> > default.
>
> I'm confused. On the one hand you support KiB, but you don't think KB is
> ambiguous?

Sure I think it's ambiguous, that's why I've proposed unambiguous decimal 
units.  Everyone wins! :)

> > My proposal for KdB was in that regard half-snarky and only a little bit
> > serious.  Do I mind if we have an option that makes KB == 1000?  No, but
> > I want it to be non-default and I really do think it's a better idea to
> > have specific units for the same reason it was a good idea to come up
> > with KiB.
>
> Was anyone asking for "KB = 1000 B" to be default? I thought we mostly
> agreed KiB should stay default... (And anyway "KB = 1000 B" is wrong, it
> should be "kB = 1000 B" :-) ...note lower case 'k'.)

No, but people were asking that KB should never be visible unless it meant 
1000 bytes, which is inconsistent with existing practice and was certainly not 
wanted by a significant amount of people.

Regards,
 - Michael Pyne

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