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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Techical Reason Why Konqueror File Management Engine Can't be
From:       Thiago Macieira <thiago () kde ! org>
Date:       2009-06-29 19:09:01
Message-ID: 200906292109.17319.thiago () kde ! org
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David C. Rankin wrote:
>        Is there some reason the konqueror file management engine (
> "backend" or whatever you want to call it) in kde4 cannot be restored
> to the kde3 konqueror file manager engine instead of the dolphin
> backend?

No, there's no technical reason. It can be restored.

But since it hasn't been maintained for years now, you'll have a lot of 
porting to do. I don't think it completed the port to KDE 4.

You're looking at several months of work. By someone who knows this code.

Do you have volunteers?

> There are numerous basic problems with band-aiding the dolphin
> engine as the backend for konqueror file management that make it very
> very frustrating to work with. You cannot even make konqueror behave
> like konqueror since it now shares setting with dolphin.

The only functionality I'm currently missing is zeroconf:/ showing 
_http._tcp too. I don't know where the problem lies.

Besides that, everything is working like it's expected to. Also note that 
the DolphinPart shares some code with the file dialog too. That's how it 
should be: code sharing.

>        Why was this done in the first place?

Because we did have someone volunteering to maintain the Dolphin part 
(Peter Penz, the dolphin author), but no one wanted to spend time keeping 
the Konqueror FS parts (konqiconview and konqlistview).

And because code sharing is good.

Dolphin is KDE 4's file manager. Konqueror can still do file management, but 
it simply reuses what Dolphin has. The wishlist you posted is probably a 
WONTFIX: we don't want different settings.

Dolphin is not a replacement for Konqueror. It's a file manager and that 
alone. It will never display a man page, by design. It will never do some 
things Konqueror did or does.

>       Further, the dolphin backend destroys the ability to save the
> konqueror "File Management" profile and have it restored when you open
> konqueror back up:

Works here, just fine.

The sidebar doesn't reopen where it should have, but that's a bug that can 
be fixed.

> can't
>you simply restore the konqueror backend to konqueror so it will at
> least work and allow you to do the simple file management tasks that it

No, it can't be "simply restored" because, like I said above, the code is 
now 2 or 3 years old, if not more. It's probably not even using Qt 4's 
Model-View classes, so there's a lot of work left to be done just to get 
it to a working state.

> was designed to do, and has been doing for the past 3 years in kde,
> before somebody decided to break konqueror by removing its working file
> management backend and "round- pegging... square-holing" the dolphin
> backend underneath it??

It was removed in September 2007 after months of catching dust. No one was 
working on it.

DolphinPart was being worked on, however.

>        There were reasons that the konqueror file management backend
> worked the way it did and now all the efficiency and elegance of that
> engine has gone up in smoke because somebody had the cute idea to break
> konqueror to make dolphin instead of being smart about it and leaving
> konqueror as konqueror, building dolphin as a separate app and
> borrowing what was needed from konqueror instead of destroying it as a
> stand alone application.

Can you please post some links to discussions on kde-devel or kde-core-
devel to base your theories?

No?

That may be because your theory is baseless.

Especially because Dolphin *did* borrow code from Konqueror. And then 
Konqueror was retrofitted to use the new code from Dolphin.

Quite frankly, I like Dolphin the way it is.

And since most people are using Dolphin for file management, not Konqueror, 
it stands to reason that file management in Konqueror will have more issues 
than with Dolphin.

>       I don't know what it will take to get the attention focused on
> these type of problems, but it needs to happen without further delay.

Says you. Opinions on the priority of the items you listed differ greatly.

I'm not saying that bugs don't exist. They do. But what is high priority 
for one person may not be the same level of priority for the majority of 
users. Or, for that matter, for those few developers who are volunteering 
to do any work in the areas affected.

But I'll tell you what is necessary to get attention focussed on those 
problems: people who, like you, think they are a high priority. This email 
you sent may be seen as a call for help: you will probably get a few 
developers, here and there, to help you. 

It may not be enough. If you feel strongly about these issues, you should 
do some coding work, or find more people to help you get those issues 
solved.

Remember that every developer in KDE is working voluntarily, and working 
on what they want to work on. You have to convince people to want to work 
on those issues.

>        We all have to same goal of helping make kde4 "the desktop" for
> Linux and one by which all others are measured. If we are going to
> succeed, more attention has to be placed on making sure it is usable
> and that the basic expected things work

Agreed. That's why there's focus on Dolphin as a file manager. You're the 
one who's diverging from the curve, unfortunately...

-- 
  Thiago Macieira  -  thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
    PGP/GPG: 0x6EF45358; fingerprint:
    E067 918B B660 DBD1 105C  966C 33F5 F005 6EF4 5358

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