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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Techical Reason Why Konqueror File Management Engine Can't be
From:       "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty () suddenlinkmail ! com>
Date:       2009-06-29 18:17:37
Message-ID: 200906291317.38126.drankinatty () suddenlinkmail ! com
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Listmates,

	Is there some reason the konqueror file management engine ( "backend" or 
whatever you want to call it) in kde4 cannot be restored to the kde3 konqueror 
file manager engine instead of the dolphin backend? There are numerous basic 
problems with band-aiding the dolphin engine as the backend for konqueror file 
management that make it very very frustrating to work with. You cannot even 
make konqueror behave like konqueror since it now shares setting with dolphin.

	Why was this done in the first place?

See: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197165

<quote>

------ Comment #1 From  Frank Reininghaus   2009-06-19 19:26:07  (-) [reply] 
-------  
Thanks for the report. I'll change the severity to "Wishlist" because this is
not a bug.

However, I'm afraid this might be impossible to implement. The problem is that
Konqueror and Dolphin share the same code for the file management settings and
also the settings file in the user's home directory (dolphinrc), so it's
impossible to have different default settings for both :-(

</quote>

	Yes, I agree with the :-(, that's crap. 

	Basic focus handling is botched so if you ever preview a file using the 
right-click context item "Preview In", when you exit the preview, you are 
returned to the very "top" of the file list. Talk about annoying as hell in a 
directory with 600 files in it.

See: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198073

	This is a major issue that for all practical purposes destroys a great deal 
of konqueror functionality. Dolphin isn't a usable replacement for konqueror, 
you can't even view a single man page or info page in the silly thing, among 
many other areas where it simply isn't capable of doing what konqueror does.

	Further, the dolphin backend destroys the ability to save the konqueror "File 
Management" profile and have it restored when you open konqueror back up:

See: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195808

	What in the heck is the purpose of having a "Save View Profile File 
Management..." if it doesn't work. It works just fine in kde3 with the real 
konqueror backend, so why -- until the kde developers get this fixed -- can't 
you simply restore the konqueror backend to konqueror so it will at least work 
and allow you to do the simple file management tasks that it was designed to 
do, and has been doing for the past 3 years in kde, before somebody decided to 
break konqueror by removing its working file management backend and "round-
pegging... square-holing" the dolphin backend underneath it??

	Restoring correct konqueror focus handling would also greatly improve the 
ability for people with disabilities or an unsteady hand to use it as well. 
With the konqueror file management backend, you set focus on a file without 
activating it by clicking "anywhere" in the blank space between the end of the 
file name text and the "size" column. That was a big target and sufficient 
real-estate for people to hit who had unsteady hands or impaired vision. 
That's now broken and you have to be able to hit that tiny icon just before 
the file name to accomplish the same thing. 

See: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195528

	There were reasons that the konqueror file management backend worked the way 
it did and now all the efficiency and elegance of that engine has gone up in 
smoke because somebody had the cute idea to break konqueror to make dolphin 
instead of being smart about it and leaving konqueror as konqueror, building 
dolphin as a separate app and borrowing what was needed from konqueror instead 
of destroying it as a stand alone application. I mean konqueror now can't even 
remember the last folder a file was loaded from (using the file-open dialog) 
in web browsing mode causing you to have to navigate the entire filesystem 
tree for each and every file you need to attach for bugs.kde.org. That is a 
huge pain when you are working from, for example:

/mnt/nirvana-cfg/srv/www/download/openSUSE_bugs/kde4/screenshots

	I'm doing my best to understand why all of this stuff is still broken on the 
eve of the .3 release, and I am doing my best to help fix it (38 bug reports 
in 30 days), but I must tell you it is very frustrating to have developers 
take the position that "yes, we know what you could do with konqueror in kde3, 
we know you can't now, but that isn't a 'bug', that is a 'wishlist' item." 
Huh??

	Is mediocrity the new gold standard for kde? With kde3 shut down, one would 
think more emphasis would be placed on making sure its functionality at least 
existed in kde4 as a priority and not simply an afterthought.

	Don't get me wrong and don't take this the wrong way or as a slam of kde4. I 
have committed myself to work with KDE4 as my primary desktop both on openSuSE 
( 4.2.90-139.1 ) and on Archlinux ( 4.2.95-1 ) and I am very impressed with a 
majority of the great work that has been done. KDE4 is a damn good desktop. 
However, there is an abundance of very basic functionality issues that seem to 
be completely overlooked, swept under the rug, or basically ignored in a rush 
to get the glitz and glamor aspects of kde4 ironed out. This approach has so 
far made working with the desktop very very frustrating in multiple areas.

	I don't know what it will take to get the attention focused on these type of 
problems, but it needs to happen without further delay. I still must go back 
to kde3 for a number of things that simple cannot be done in KDE4. See eg:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198112
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195623
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195808
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189583
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197595
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197911
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198030

	These are just by way of example of the ones I have stumbled across and not a 
complete list by any stretch of the imagination.

	We all have to same goal of helping make kde4 "the desktop" for Linux and one 
by which all others are measured. If we are going to succeed, more attention 
has to be placed on making sure it is usable and that the basic expected 
things work. Now fixing the way konqueror works may not be a glamorous as 
coding the new "plasma", but if the simple things don't work, nobody is going 
to care how good it looks.

	If I can provide more information on any of the bugs referenced in this post, 
just let me know and I will be happy to do it. I know the people assigned to 
these at bugs.kde.org have limited time so if this list can also help with the 
process, I don't mind working both.

	Now I know this post will piss 1/2 the readers off and garner agreement from 
the other 1/2, but the bottom line is these type of problems need to be fixed 
and at least from my standpoint simply restoring the konqueror backend to 
konqueror would fix a large number.

-- 
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Rankin Law Firm, PLLC
510 Ochiltree Street
Nacogdoches, Texas 75961
Telephone: (936) 715-9333
Facsimile: (936) 715-9339
www.rankinlawfirm.com
 
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