I am pretty tired of this whole "discussion". Actually, pretty sick of it. If KDE 3.5 suits you, why don't you stick to it and let others explore new approaches to using a computer in KDE 4? Instead, you insist that 4 must mimick 3.5. No, it must not. 15 years ago, a desktop computer was mostly used as a glorified typewriter, developer tool for developers, Internet access if you were lucky (not so here in Namibia), email. Games. Music composing had just started. Video cutting was in its infancy. So the paradigm "desktop" - windows, icons, mouse (WIM) - was probably the right approach. No, not probably. It was. What do we have today? First of all, the number of personal files has increased beyond anything any of us has imagined 15 years ago. I have about 200,000 files under my home directory. Icons and hierarchical folders don't scale for me anymore. I don't want to remember where I have stored what. I want to ask the computer for uncle Billy's photo that came in by an email from George. Same for the secretary that wants to ask the computer for a quotation about vacuumer model A sent out to customer B about three weeks ago. Let the bloody computer m0emorise all these pesky details and don't bother me with it. Second, computers have turned into entertainment centres. Did you see hired DJs come to a private function with a laptop (and nothing else), plug it into the stereo and work from there? What has that to do with a "desktop"? Third, computers have become knowledge centres. None of my friends has a printed encyclopedia anymore. Wikipedia, google and such have replaced that. When I think of an encyclopedia, I think of an easychair rather than a desktop. Or, maybe, of the kitchen table. ;-) Forth, computers are now multimedia production centres. Cutting movies, mastering sounds, mixing autio. Desktop? Naw. Cutting room and mixing board. Fifth, gaming has become far closer to a driver's seat (land, water, air) than a desktop. And on and on. So, where does it leave us? It might well be that the times of one paradigm are over. Those using computers in an enterprise environment might still be served best with the desktop approach (minus icons and hierarchical folders). The rest of us might need different approaches that blend in with what we do with computers. My take is, the "desktop" approach is a single-minded approach. It must fracture into different GUIs that can satisfy people doing utterly different things with computers. KDE4's new technologies seem seem to fit this demand better than anything else I have seen so far. Plasma just being the most visible of them. Speaking of plasma, it can simulate the old desktop apporach. Good for the coporate users - and I mean it. It can also do a hundred other things. Needed things! It can't do all of them right now but it has the flexibility to do so. Great! Again for those who are married to 3.5: Just stick to it. It's all yours. In a years time, maybe two years time, try out KDE 4 and see whether it does not meet your needs. Please let us, who are committed to push it, explore future ways in KDE 4. In the past, OSS was always playing catching up. KDE 3.5 was *pretty* good at it. Somewhere between Windows and OSX in my book. With KDE 4 we have the have the opportunity for the first time to *lead* GUI development. So, let's do it rather than confine us to the past. Uwe (climbing down from his soap box) -- Ignorance killed the cat, sir, curiosity was framed! >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<