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List: kde-devel
Subject: Re: Feeding trolls
From: "Nathan Bradshaw" <nathanlbradshaw () gmail ! com>
Date: 2008-06-10 16:17:43
Message-ID: 92af7fc70806100917p64d512d2waac37a1199561de0 () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:37 AM, James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj@acm.org>
wrote:
> Anne Wilson wrote:
> > I've deliberately attached this to Aaron's reply, so that no particular
> > objector will take it as personal (someone had to be the fall guy :-) )
>
> It is probably best that you attached it to AJS's posting. His replies
> are not very useful and they seem to result in threads such as this
> becoming useless. The reason for this is that rather than accept user
> feedback for what it is, he engages in 'hit and run' rhetoric to try to
> justify things. I see this as making excuses. That doesn't help.
you have brought absolutely nothing of value to this list. This is a
development list and you've devolved it into a showcase for your petty
banter and weird, deranged personal agenda with Aaron. What have you done?
This ridiculous sense of entitlement you seem to have to tell others what to
do and how to do it whilst contributing nothing but distraction and vitriol
is astounding. So you use software that others sacrifice their time and
effort for, big deal! either contribute something useful (no, whining is not
useful) or stop filling up the devel lists with your nonsense. Fill out a
bug report, show how great you are by developing such astounding apps for
kde3 that everyone roles back their installs to your holy grail of all
desktop software, do something, anything, but please just stop whining like
a spoiled 8 year old whose been told they can't stay up past their bed time.
>
>
> If something doesn't work, there are no good excuses for that. While
> knowing why it doesn't work may be useful, it does not justify the fact
> that it doesn't work.
lets see your feature complete, bug free code then. I'm sure its flawless,
like everything else you do, because after all, there are just no good
excuses for anything else, are there?
>
>
> The most annoying part of his rhetoric is that rather than just
> accepting comments as a whole that he tries to find some part of what
> was said that he can deny.
you mean when you make a giant rant full of mistakes or statement that just
aren't true about someones work they should say 'sure he doesn't seem to
know what he's talking about, but I'll take it all on board anyway. And of
course I'll leave a puddle of misinformation about my work unanswered,
because that will clearly help informed discussion in the future'
> Doesn't help at all -- he simply wastes his
> time.
truer words are yet to be typed by you. His replied to the like of you, the
willfully ignorant and annoying, are definitely not the best use of his time
(and no doubt of mine either, damn it)
> Better to accept user feedback and if it isn't clear, ask them to
> clarify their points.
better to try and educate the people who are making erroneous statements
than to run around chasing their fantasy of what is real -vs- what they
_think_ is real
>
>
> > If this thread ever had any value it certainly doesn't have now. Let's
> just
> > drop the whole thing. My suggestions -
> >
> > If you have any specific question - particularly if you want directing to
> > helpful reading - start a new thread.
> >
> > Before you do that, do read what you can find, and watch the screencast
> at
> > http://www.ereslibre.es/?p=104 to see if the problem has already been
> > tackled.
> >
> > Accept that some things will be done differently, and stick with KDE3 if
> you
> > can't face that.
> >
> > Most of all, moderate your language. Everyone is entitled to respect,
> > including but not exclusively you, the writer.
>
> Yes, users are entitled to respect even if they are wrong.
maybe if you conducted yourself in any kind of polite manner then people
might show you some respect but your current behavior warrants nothing but
ridicule. You are exactly why developing in public is hard.
>
>
> > Finally. if you are told that you will just have to wait for what you
> want,
> > stand back and ask how many hours you personally have given to resolving
> > problems.
>
> Quite true. However, 4.0 was released (i.e. it is not Beta 5) and users
> are probably correct in criticizing it.
yeah, it would have been much better for them to not have had access to it
at all. In fact, noone should have access to anything until you or someone
else's arbitrary idea of feature completeness is reached. Especially since
the developers personally go around like some deranged free software tooth
faeries installing it on your computer while you sleep and then unplugging
your interwebs to make sure you can't switch back to a version that does
what you want (just a shame they couldn't keep you from posting to the
mailing lists <sigh>)
>
>
> > One more thing - developers, please try to make it clear when you say
> > something is available, whether you mean in 4.0.x or 4.1. That should
> save a
> > few comebacks :-)
> >
> Thank you for your well chosen comments. I see the best course of
> action for myself, and for all users, is to simply not reply to AJS's
> rhetorical replies.
do you actually no what the word 'rhetorical' means? which replies exactly
fit that bill?
> Unless he changes the manner in which he makes
> comments, that is the only way to avoid threads degenerating into
> useless rhetoric as this one clearly has.
yes, because heavens knows what a curse being deprived of a discussion with
the likes of you would be. I'm sure Aaron and any other developer who dares
to try and create new and innovative software for such an appreciative
audience is taking a lesson from this.
>
>
> --
> JRT
>
> >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> unsubscribe <<
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:37 AM, James Richard Tyrer \
<<a href="mailto:tyrerj@acm.org">tyrerj@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Anne Wilson wrote:<br>
> I've deliberately attached this to Aaron's reply, so that no \
particular<br> > objector will take it as personal (someone had to be the fall guy \
:-) )<br> <br>
It is probably best that you attached it to AJS's posting. His replies<br>
are not very useful and they seem to result in threads such as this<br>
becoming useless. The reason for this is that rather than accept user<br>
feedback for what it is, he engages in 'hit and run' rhetoric to try to<br>
justify things. I see this as making excuses. That doesn't \
help.</blockquote><div><br>you have brought absolutely nothing of value to this list. \
This is a development list and you've devolved it into a showcase for your petty \
banter and weird, deranged personal agenda with Aaron. What have you done?<br> \
<br>This ridiculous sense of entitlement you seem to have to tell others what to do \
and how to do it whilst contributing nothing but distraction and vitriol is \
astounding. So you use software that others sacrifice their time and effort for, big \
deal! either contribute something useful (no, whining is not useful) or stop filling \
up the devel lists with your nonsense. Fill out a bug report, show how great you are \
by developing such astounding apps for kde3 that everyone roles back their installs \
to your holy grail of all desktop software, do something, anything, but please just \
stop whining like a spoiled 8 year old whose been told they can't stay up past \
their bed time.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: \
1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br> \
<br> If something doesn't work, there are no good excuses for that. \
While<br> knowing why it doesn't work may be useful, it does not justify \
the fact<br> that it doesn't work.</blockquote><div><br>lets see your feature \
complete, bug free code then. I'm sure its flawless, like everything else you do, \
because after all, there are just no good excuses for anything else, are there?<br> \
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br> <br>
The most annoying part of his rhetoric is that rather than just<br>
accepting comments as a whole that he tries to find some part of what<br>
was said that he can deny. </blockquote><div><br>you mean when you make a giant \
rant full of mistakes or statement that just aren't true about someones work they \
should say 'sure he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about, but \
I'll take it all on board anyway. And of course I'll leave a puddle of \
misinformation about my work unanswered, because that will clearly help informed \
discussion in the future'<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
padding-left: 1ex;">Doesn't help at all -- he simply wastes his <br> time. \
</blockquote><div><br>truer words are yet to be typed by you. His replied to the like \
of you, the willfully ignorant and annoying, are definitely not the best use of his \
time (and no doubt of mine either, damn it)<br> </div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Better to accept user feedback and if it \
isn't clear, ask them to<br> clarify their points.</blockquote><div><br>better to \
try and educate the people who are making erroneous statements than to run around \
chasing their fantasy of what is real -vs- what they _think_ is \
real<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid \
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br>
<br>
> If this thread ever had any value it certainly doesn't have now. \
Let's just<br> > drop the whole thing. My suggestions -<br>
><br>
> If you have any specific question - particularly if you want directing to<br>
> helpful reading - start a new thread.<br>
><br>
> Before you do that, do read what you can find, and watch the screencast at<br>
> <a href="http://www.ereslibre.es/?p=104" \
target="_blank">http://www.ereslibre.es/?p=104</a> to see if the problem has already \
been<br> > tackled.<br>
><br>
> Accept that some things will be done differently, and stick with KDE3 if you<br>
> can't face that.<br>
><br>
> Most of all, moderate your language. Everyone is entitled to respect,<br>
> including but not exclusively you, the writer.<br>
<br>
Yes, users are entitled to respect even if they are wrong.</blockquote><div><br>maybe \
if you conducted yourself in any kind of polite manner then people might show you \
some respect but your current behavior warrants nothing but ridicule. You are exactly \
why developing in public is hard. <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
padding-left: 1ex;"><br> <br>
> Finally. if you are told that you will just have to wait for what you want,<br>
> stand back and ask how many hours you personally have given to resolving<br>
> problems.<br>
<br>
Quite true. However, 4.0 was released (i.e. it is not Beta 5) and users<br>
are probably correct in criticizing it.</blockquote><div><br>yeah, it would have been \
much better for them to not have had access to it at all. In fact, noone should have \
access to anything until you or someone else's arbitrary idea of feature \
completeness is reached. Especially since the developers personally go around like \
some deranged free software tooth faeries installing it on your computer while you \
sleep and then unplugging your interwebs to make sure you can't switch back to a \
version that does what you want (just a shame they couldn't keep you from posting \
to the mailing lists <sigh>)<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
padding-left: 1ex;"><br> <br>
> One more thing - developers, please try to make it clear when you say<br>
> something is available, whether you mean in 4.0.x or 4.1. That should save \
a<br> > few comebacks :-)<br>
><br>
Thank you for your well chosen comments. I see the best course of<br>
action for myself, and for all users, is to simply not reply to AJS's<br>
rhetorical replies. </blockquote><div><br>do you actually no what the word \
'rhetorical' means? which replies exactly fit that \
bill?<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid \
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Unless he changes \
the manner in which he makes<br> comments, that is the only way to avoid threads \
degenerating into<br> useless rhetoric as this one clearly \
has.</blockquote><div><br>yes, because heavens knows what a curse being deprived \
of a discussion with the likes of you would be. I'm sure Aaron and any \
other developer who dares to try and create new and innovative software for such an \
appreciative audience is taking a lesson from this.<br> <br> </div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br> <font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
JRT<br>
<br>
>> Visit <a href="http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub" \
target="_blank">http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub</a> to \
unsubscribe <<<br> </font></blockquote></div><br>
>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
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