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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Fork of KDE4/Qt3?
From:       Gael Beaudoin <gaboo () gaboo ! org>
Date:       2008-06-10 10:15:07
Message-ID: 200806101215.07125.gaboo () gaboo ! org
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On Tuesday 10 June 2008 11:42:12 Mark A. Taff wrote:
> On Tuesday 10 June 2008 01:50:35 Gael Beaudoin wrote:
> > On Tuesday 10 June 2008 06:09:45 Mark A. Taff wrote:
> >
> > [ .. ]
> >
> > > You have earned exactly that.  Calling your fellow developers, users,
> > > and contributors names, saying they are stupid, or incapable of
> > > understanding, or incompetent coders, or treating plasma as a gift from
> > > God beyond reproach, and generally insulting anyone who questions your
> > > position has earned you every bit of frustration you feel.
> >
> > Sorry, but it's just *plain wrong*. It has to be said. And I won't get
> > into details.
>
> You are welcome to think that my standing up to Aaron's bullying is wrong,
> and calling him on his behaviour, but I will not be cowed by his vitrolic
> argumentum ad hominem.  Bullies need to be stood up to.



> <snip>
>
> > > (Please do speak up everyone if you approve of Aaron telling KDE
> > > contributors they are stupid -- let's get a roll call vote on this
> > > one.)
> > >
> > > --Mark
> > >
> > > >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> > > >> unsubscribe <<
> >
> > Let's get thing straight :
> >
> >  * The plasma team is well aware of your concerns.
>
> 	What does that mean exactly?  Right.  It means absolutely nothing.  It's
> what politicians say when you express your opinion on a matter, and they
> want to blow you off.

It simply means that issues you mentioned were expressed before and are known 
(like icons on desktop). And will be worked on. This has been stated by aaron 
several times.

>
> >  * Please wait a little bit more while everyting is being done.
>
> 	Please, define 'little bit'. KDE 4.2? 4.3?

Yeah, something like that. Just look at the improvement between 4.0 and 4.1 
and you'll get an idea at how things will improve. The plasma team is working 
like mad on providing in 4.1 all what people miss in 4.0 from 3.5. 
Unfortunately, not all is there. But in due time, it will, no worries about 
that.

>
> >  * Please understand you are doing harm to the project by hurting people.
>
> 	Last I checked, I'm not the one bullying other contributors.  You are
> welcome to ignore Aaron's bullying if you like.  But please explain to me
> why I should stand by and permit Aaron to insult and degrade contributors,
> whether myself or others? 

You're exagerating a little bit here. But I can understand why. I can also 
understand aaron's words. Just step back and say 'weell, ok, let's start 
over'. This is what I'm trying to do, again : assure you that issues are 
known and worked on. And please, don't compare to politics, all is done in 
the open. All we're refering to is available somewhere in source code, blogs, 
mailing lists, etc.

> How many potential developers, translators, doc 
> writers, artists, have decided not to help because they don't want to get
> treated like a toilet by Aaron?

How many developpers, contributors, translators are working on KDE because of 
Aaron ? That include myself, even If I don't contribute a lot.

>
> People laugh about Steve Ballmer losing his temper and throwing chairs, but
> nobody seems to mind when Aaron hurls personal attacks?

Oh come on :)

>
> Do you or do you not approve of the way Aaron insults people who disagree
> with him?

This is not black or white. I can just say that if plasma is what it is now, 
it is, in great part, thanks to him. Granted it's not done. Granted it's not 
perfect. But it's already a pretty damn good piece of code.

>
> I don't know about elsewhere, but in the U.S. it is a civil tort
> (harassment) to treat co-workers the way Aaron treats people.  Granted,
> this isn't a traditional workplace to say the very least, but it is simply
> unprofessional behaviour.  I do not expect professionals to hurl insults
> like Aaron does.

You've had an arguement with him. It happens all the time. I does not make you 
or him a bad person.

> > Just, pretty please, stop. Thank you.
> >
> > Have a nice day.
> > Gaël
>
> I will have a nice day. I hope you will, as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark
>

Gaël
 
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