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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: added debug areas
From:       Nicolas Goutte <nicolasg () snafu ! de>
Date:       2003-10-13 20:09:10
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Good, after tried to calm myself and having tried to think half an hour calmly 
at this, I am sorry, but I still find it still unsatisfactory.

First, if let say, we grep on "kword", you will only have KWord's kdebug 
messages, However KOffice is about libraries, so you do not need only KWord, 
but also, KoText, KOfficeCore, KOfficeUI... to have useful debug output. That 
is not solved by a grep.

Personally, I do not understand that one on side you write "it is necessary 
for libraries" but on the other you consider it not needed for applications. 
I do not understand why you make a separation here.

If you do not worry of having monster log (as your harddisk (+CPU and RAM) 
seems to support it), then why do you want to disable some libraries. You can 
postprocess them too.

We have with kdebug a flexible system that can work with applications too. 
Then why suddenly write (or at least suddenly try to enforce) that 
applications are not covered (anymore.)

Because if this policy is really supposed to have been since the start then 
why are there so many applications defined in kdebug.areas. The log tells 
that version 1.1 of kdebug.areas was created on 1998-09-29 and the first area 
for an application (khexedit) was created on revison 1.3 (1998-10-03.) So 
applications in kdebug.areas are a pretty old stuff, happening very quickly 
after the creation of the areas. So why was it tolerated around 5 years and 
now it should not be anymore, additionally in a middle of a KDE version?

That is what I have still not understood in this discussion. 

(In any case there seems to be a great need to clarify this for KDE 4.)

Have a nice day!

On Monday 13 October 2003 20:33, George Staikos wrote:
> On Monday 13 October 2003 14:03, Nicolas Goutte wrote:
> > That is why I think that this new policy is a big drawback. And I wonder
> > why we are fighting for one debug area, as KOffice will surely create
> > much more in future. And why suddenly attacking Shaheed with this, as
> > many many applications got debug areas before? And especially why writing
> > (or at least suggesting)  that applications never got debug areas before?
> > That is just nonsence!
> >
> > That is why I do not understand Stephan Kulow's and George Staikos's
> > interventions. If kdebug is slow, then we have to make it faster. If it
> > does not work, then we have to think something for KDE 4. But changing
> > the policy in the middle of KDE3 is extremely curious to me.
>
>   Do you know about grep(1)?  This will solve your problems, more quickly
> than launching and playing with kdebugdialog too.  Meanwhile, the policy as
> far as I remember has always been that kdebug.areas is for libraries, not
> applications.  It is unnecessary for applications.  It is necessary for
> libraries.  Exceptions: constantly running apps like kded, which loads many
> modules, need debug areas to separate the debug info coming from each of
> the modules.  KIOSlaves are also similar exceptions.  There are others. 
> I'm sure kdebug.areas is and has been used for silly things before, but we
> really shouldn't be adding single debug areas for single stand-alone apps,
> especially not even in KDE standard distribution.  All it means is a bigger
> kdebug.areas file too parse on startup and bigger log files.  Yes, mine is
> presently 300MB - less than a week old.

 
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