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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: A case for sharing Desktop and home directory - summary
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2002-12-04 10:08:55
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Manuel Amador wrote:
> El mar, 03-12-2002 a las 14:14, James Richard Tyrer escribió:
> 
>>Manuel Amador wrote:
>>
>>
>>>- "Apps put odd files in homedir":
>>>    * apps should save user data in a visible way (e.g. Mail).
>>>      Fix braindead apps which don't.
>>>    * apps should save app data hidden from the user (e.g
>>>      .mail/indexes).  Fix braindead apps.
>>>    * core files shouldn't appear by default
>>>      (most distros already do this).
>>
>>Various apps put a lot of files in the $HOME directory and this is not 
>>just an abnormal behavior.
>>
>>In fact if an application is locally installed in its own subdirectory, 
>>the $HOME directory is the proper place for that.  That is, if it would 
>>be globally installed in:
>>
>>	/usr/local/foobar
>>
>>Then a local install would be in:
>>
>>	$HOME/foobar
> 
> Yes, but this is a feature of the UNIX filesystem and conventions.  I
> understand that looking at the application directory in the desktop
> might be a little odd, but if you're installing an application in your
> home directory, you can pretty much consider it your own directory and
> show it (or, horrors, provide an option to hide it or save it as
> $HOME/.foobar, 

Sorry, that doesn't work.  Do you have Mozilla installed?  Well change 
the name of its installation directory and see what happens.  It WON'T run!

> noting that I'm against both practices).  It's my current
> setup - I'm showing an application installation folder, and I tugged it
> on one corner of my desktop.
> 
> For most visible files that show up, apps can be fixed.  Core files, the
> mail directory, the evolution directory, all those things are being
> currently considered for fixing, or are already fixed.
> 
>>This is the normal way to do things.
>>
>>And then there is a whole bunch of hidden files.
> 
> which won't show up.
> 
Is there an option to have them show up in the directory and not on the 
Desktop?  And, if so, does it work with hidden directories as well?  If 
not, then using them is going to be a problem.

>>Therefore, I make a different suggestion:
>>
>>Rather than make the $HOME directory the Desktop directory because it is 
>>the default user account directory, that the Desktop directory should be 
>>made the default user account directory
> 
> Doing this properly requires changing the $HOME environment variable and
> the home directory in /etc/passwd.
> 
NO, I don't want to change the $HOME directory.  I just want for KDE to 
be able to change the default working directory for (all) applications 
to something other than the $HOME directory.

>>so that when you go to save a 
>>file in an application that instead of the $HOME directory being the 
>>default directory that your Desktop directory would be the default, 
>>making you save files in the directory tree rooted at your Desktop tree 
>>rather than the directory tree rooted at $HOME.
> 
> Yes but that also has problems.  Only KDE apps would save to the
> Desktop, in that case.  Most apps will need per-app configuration (an
> administrator's nightmare).  

NO again.  If it is possible to do it on a per-applications basis, then 
it is also possible for there to be a default other than $HOME.

> As it has been pointed out earlier, the
> great majority of apps don't go to the Desktop folder, instead showing
> $HOME by default on the File save and File open dialogs.
> 
Perhaps you don't understand that this can be changed.  If you open a 
Konsole and change to your Desktop folder; then open an application 
using the command line, the default directory to save/open files with 
then be the Desktop directory.

> To work effectively, users would need to look up files based on which
> application was used to save them, on a per-app basis, and would need
> to  know that beforehand.  Either that, or users/admins would need to
> configure working directory for every app.
> 
But, how does this differ from having the tree rooted at $HOME?  If the 
default were changed to the Desktop directory, that would not be done on 
a per-app basis.

>>This should not be forced.  It should be configurable.  You should be 
>>able to select your default working directory in place of the 
>>"Documents" directory which only works for KDE applications.
>>
>>You can currently configure the Konqueror sidebar so that it has the 
>>Desktop directory as a tab.  This configurability should be extended to 
>>the toolbars, a Desktop icon should be added that would open the Desktop 
>>directory.
> 
> But this complicates things for KDE developers and users.  Desktop would
> be a separate hierarchy instance, but at the same time, use cases will
> show it to be contained in the homedir.  Inconsistency breeds user
> confusion.

I fail to see your point.  Desktop (or the replacement for "Documents" 
actually) would be the root of the tree where you save your files (for 
all applications).  This is a sub-tree of your $HOME directory.  There 
is no inconsistency there.  The only difference is that you would be 
freed from the annoyance of applications opening the file save dialog at 
$HOME if that wasn't what you wanted.

--
JRT

--
JRT

 
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