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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Abstracting the Linux Desktop from the File-system
From:       Nicolas Goutte <nicog () snafu ! de>
Date:       2002-11-30 10:39:45
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On Saturday 30 November 2002 10:51, Julien Olivier wrote:
> Le ven 29/11/2002 à 20:04, Nicolas Goutte a écrit :
> > On Friday 29 November 2002 17:56, Julien Olivier wrote:
> > > Le Vendredi 29 Novembre 2002 18:37, Manuel Amador a écrit :
> > > > Did you read?
> > > >
> > > > Abstracting the Linux Desktop from the File-system
> > > > http://evolvedoo.sourceforge.net/abstract/index.html
> > > >
> > > > ?
> > > >
> > > > Seems a good read!
> > >
> > > I submitted two bugs: one to get kmail's default folder to .mail and
> > > one to have the desktop path as ~/ by default.
> >
> > There is a risk when the desktop is in $HOME. A new user might think:
> > "but I do not want these files on the desktop" and he removes the files.
> > He might overlook that he has just removed his files also in $HOME.
>
> Well, on the desktop, you'd have only "not important" files because the
> important files start with a "." and, so, they are hidden. Except the
> "Mail" folder. And that's why I'm also fighting to have it renamed
> ".mail" by default. On a normal ~/, you should only "see" non-system
> files, like on a normal desktop. So, selecting everything and
> suppressing it all should not damage your system.

As far as I know, Mail is not hidden so people can find it to make backups.
(Or do you thing that home users have automated backup systems?)

>
> > I can perhaps understand that people want to work that way but in my
> > opinion the main user directory ( $HOME ) and the desktop are two
> > different things.
>
> Yes, it's the case now but I think it's an error because the desktop
> should be a link to your personal files, which ~/ is.

That is one way of thinking about it. I find it right to allow a user to do 
that. I do not find it right to hae it as KDE default.

>
> > Your proposal makes it also hard to have different desktop for different
> > KDE versions. (No, I do not play the "use another user.")
> >
> > Please also think about that KDE asks the user if we wants to move the
> > files when changing the Desktop path. But with your default, you cannot
> > change the path anymore, as something like ~/Desktop is inside ~  .
> > Therefore you cannot move your files anymore.
>
> I don't think it's so important. Who really wants to move his desktop's
> location except power users who, anyway, will always find a way to
> perform what they want.

Well, people coming from Windows do want their behaviours also in KDE. Desktop 
is there different from "My Files". And these users are not power users.

>
> > > 5 minutes after having posted those wishes, they were closed "WONTFIX".
> > >
> > > Sadly, there's no hope to see KDE developers listen to users soon I
> > > believe...
> >
> > KDE developers can only make things if they understand. If you just tell,
> > I want this and the developer does not understand why, there is a high
> > probability that you will get "WONTFIX". (Sure, user-developer
> > communication can be hard... in both ways.)
>
> Well, I'm a developer myself and I totally understood why that's better
> for the normal user I also am. So that must not be impossible for other
> developers to understand it. But maybe they just don't like the idea,
> which is different from not understanding it. If they just don't like
> the idea, they should at least ask some other people (mainly users) what
> they think about it. I know developers decide because they are the ones
> who work. I respect that. But the problem is that, even if you know how
> to change some things in KDE, you have to convince major developers that
> your changes are useful. Else, you work for nothing and you have only
> one solution: fork KDE. I wouldn't like to see KDE forks. I'd just like
> to see more discussion about usability problems.

It is not that I do not want that people work like that. I am just thinking 
that the default home==desktop has too many traps for newbies. (And I 
especially do not like the idea that it should be good because it forces user 
to clean their homes.)

(And by the way: has anybody checked how KDE reacts when there are so many 
icons that they do not fit anymore on the desktop? Does it crash?)

>
> > Have a nice day/evening/night!

Have a nice day/evening/night!

> >
> > > > luck,
> > > >
> > > > >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> > > > >> unsubscribe <<
> > >>
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> > >> unsubscribe <<
> >>
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