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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Why is KDE so _slow_?
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2002-11-17 23:12:48
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Luke Chatburn wrote:
 > Hi James...
 >
 > I'm not a KDE developer, but I am going to spring to Maks' defense
 > somewhat.
 >
 > Firstly; he knows the code. He knows how it performs, what is
 > necessary and what the performance characteristics are. Bottom line;
 > he works with the code on a daily basis, and therefore, he is not at
 > all arrogant to state that he knows it and the performance issues
 > better than you do.

You missed the point.  Being arrogant is his telling me that I know 
nothing to the point of being insulting.  I could have turned around and 
told him that I knew what punch cards were by actual experience. :-)

 > Unfortunately, as someone without that insight, your assertion that
 > you know better than he in this regard is arrogant in itself.
 >
Apparently, you did not read the whole thread.  I never said that I knew 
better than he did.  Someone complained about Konqueror being slow to
start up and I offered the explanation that the delay was due to the
fact that it did a lot of things before it started up.

He made his first arrogant one liner:

 >> Oh, so you have a debug build. Figures. Why the heck do you expect
 >> a debug version to be fast?

Misreading the thread completely.  Remember, I was explaining why it was
slow in response to someone else that had complained about it being
slow.  Perhaps if he had read the whole thread ... .

Then when I suggested that he had missed my point he responded again:

 >> No, you are missing a great deal here.

and explaining in detail that I didn't know anything about several things.

 > The KDE project is developed by a very talented range of individuals.
 > By far, they are the most skilled and intelligent group of coders I
 > have ever had the chance to witness working. This thing about them
 > being arrogant has been bouncing around the Gnome folks and Slashdot
 > for a while now, and anyone who watches this list knows what they do,
 > and knows it isn't true.

Saying that it isn't true won't change it.

 > They do listen to users and problems, and every day, there are dozens
 > of threads flying around the lists with people helping users to
 > compile things and adding new features. At the same time, there are
 > also some mails by belligerent users or those with ideas which would
 > not work, who have to be refused. If a user comes up with a bad idea,
 > then as developers, it is their responsibility to listen and reject
 > those in favor of better solutions when they are impossible or could
 > produce bad results.

Funny, I hadn't come up with any idea.  His arrogant remarks appear to 
be all based on his assumptions of what I thought.

 > Konqi is a complicated application, with Kparts, HTML/Javascript/XML
 > rendering along with plugins, DCOP and a host of other technologies.
 > In terms of browser applications, it is one of the most complex.

Yes, I understand the basics of how it works.  You are making the same
assumptions.

 > That said, I have a Duron 1.2 box with 256MB of PC133 and an Athlon
 > 1.4 box with 768MB of PC2100. Both have similar hard disks and the
 > graphics card on the Duron box is substantially slower (Matrox
 > Millennium vs Geforce 3 on the Athlon). The Duron box is for work and
 > runs Mandrake 9. The Athlon box runs Windows XP for Quake. Konqi
 > easily beats IE and Mozilla on the Athlon box, and Mozilla on the
 > Duron box for startup times. It also beats IE and Mozilla on my
 > friend's Mac G4.
 >
I believe that I did NOT complain about the start up times, so why are
you telling me this?  You don't appear to understand this either.

<SNIP>

 > Let's face it, the KDE has a reputation for being slow according to
 > Gnome users and that is just water off a duck's back.

So, you are dismissing the person (it wasn't me) that started this
thread as a GNOME user?  I would presume that Grant Bartlet would
consider that an insult since he stared his post by saying how much he
loved KDE.

 > These people are good coders and know how to write good code and how
 > to optimise it where possible. They don't need second guessing by the
 > likes of you

Geeee thanks for the gratuitous insult.  You are saying the same thing 
-- making the same arrogant statement, that the coders know all and they 
don't need any input from anybody.

 > or I who don't know how the code actually works at all.

Strange, I didn't say anything about the CODE.  My only actual remarks 
were about the DESIGN.  This is a common mistake of beginning CS 
students, they think that knowing a computer language is knowing how to 
write programs, WRONG.  Before you write the code for a program, you 
must DESIGN it.  My only comments were about the design of the programs 
and I used the Linux version of Mozilla for a comparison.  And neither 
you nor Maks seemed at all interested in discussing what I had said.

 > Let's let them get back to work.

So, Grant, it appears that the coders know all and they don't want our 
input or ideas about how to improve KDE.  Very sad. :-(

It is good to know (be told) that I know nothing about computer 
programing.  I did go to college and study EE & CS, but that doesn't 
matter, I guess.  I learned a little about human design factors 
somewhere along the way as well but that is probably useless as well.

But, most relevantly, I learned about how engineers work.  And that is 
what the KDE coders don't seem to know -- they don't know how engineers 
work.  They don't know that brainstorming, arguing about your work, 
explaining your work to others and defending your work to others is part 
of the process of good design.  They, instead, appear to think that 
being arrogant and telling everybody that they know everything and that 
everybody else knows nothing (even when they don't) is the thing to do.

--
JRT


 
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