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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Fundamental KDE Library Problem..
From:       Nick Betcher <nbetcher () tds ! net>
Date:       2002-07-03 12:27:18
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On Tuesday 02 July 2002 10:12 pm, dep wrote:
> begin  Nick Betcher's  quote:
> | So be it, but we do this in our spare time and we're not going to
> | bust our asses because you say so. We try our hardest on our labor
> | of love, yet we get criticized for not obeying your wishes. *That*
> | is why we tell you to do it yourself, not because we don't believe
> | what you're saying is a good idea.
>
> but what is it that you suppose i'm saying?
>
> yes, i wish that the epoch bug in the kmail in kde-1.x were fixed,
> because if it were it would breathe new life into old computers in a
> lot of places where those are the only computers at all, and where
> free software might grow and flourish. i believe there are those here
> who *do* believe it's not a good idea. fine.
>
> and yes, there are three things about kde3 that i don't like, because
> they represent things that used to exist but don't any longer. one is
> the old addressbook in kmail, which was working at the time it was
> deliberately dropped the middle of last december. it may be that
> there would have had to be some kind of herculean effort undertaken
> to keep it, but if that were the case i believe i would have heard
> about it by now. another is the ability, ideally in a control-center
> checkbox, to retain the old-style clipboard, the behavior of which
> was changed with kde3. i am aware of the reasons for this, to bring
> it into compliance with standards set elsewhere. that's fine. but
> those of us who are accustomed to working a particular way, and who
> have been loyal to kde for years, are penalized, because as with the
> addressbook a choice is simply taken away. the third is relatively
> lesser, and that is a restoration of the certainty with which text
> can be marked in kmail for copying. it is now unreliable, as of kde3.
>
> now. those are things that are of great importance to me. they may be
> of no importance whatever to anyone else. and that is fine, and that
> is not, actually, what i'm talking about.
>
> what i'm talking about instead is some concern for the user, existing
> as well as new. a sense of what things are of value in the use of the
> desktop and its applications by mere users. or, if that concern is of
> deprecated importance, a declaration to that effect, so that users
> and potential users will know that not only can they not count on
> their favorite features being included in the next release, they can
> know with certainty that their request that the features be continued
> might as well not be made. it is already known that upgrading and
> trying to find a way to keep those features is, due to absent
> backward compatibility, non-trivial. in short, communication or a
> declaration that there is no point in that communication. it's fine,
> indeed wonderful, if kde is primarily being developed to satisfy the
> developers, but if that is the case it shouldn't be kept a secret.

It isn't primarily being developed for anyone. We just write the code that we 
want, and sometimes that happens to fall under a users' request, after all, 
developers *are* users too.

>
> | Also, things take a while to become "stable" and have very little
> | source and binary changes (ala glibc), but that is also refered to
> | as maturing. And as we all know, we all took (at least) 18 years
> | before we matured in real-life, so god knows how long it will take
> | with a software project. The life of a software project can be
> | almost directly applied to a human's life.
>
> which is why before people are 18 they typically are not unleashed on
> an unsuspecting world. in other words, bad example.

Heh! So you're claiming that when you're under 18 that you never are allowed 
outside of your house? People have to deal with underage people all of the 
time, even a job market. Sometimes you may get lucky and they mature before 
18 ( As I did ).

>
> | I don't think there is a single person in disagreement with you and
> | Matt, but things take time, and we have all the time in the world.
>
> i guess that the problem here is that i'm not, and i don't think the
> others are, asking for new things, but instead for things that
> already existed but that were removed.


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