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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: File manager useability concerns for KDE deployers (was Re: Bug#43093:
From:       "Manuel Amador \(Rudd-O\)" <amadorm () usm ! edu ! ec>
Date:       2002-06-11 14:44:25
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Klas Kalass wrote:

>Maybe something like this would be nice, I agree. I'd prefer a right mouse 
>button menu entry "mount" that pops up a dialog and asks for root password if 
>needed. But how does this work in the X-Terminal case? ask for the server 
>password???
>
Good idea.  Remember that in the X Terminal case the system 
administrator defines security policies, so he/she should decide whether 
people and which people can use smbmount by setting the appropriate 
permissions on smbmount.  As a home/business desktop computer, it's a 
different matter.

>Not with smb because I do not need this protocol, but it does work with fish 
>and ftp - but maybe we are not talking about the same thing? I was talking 
>about opening from the file dialog. When it does not work with a specific KDE 
>app this is a bug and should be reported.
>Anyways for opening a file from konqueror I see no problem in it asking wether 
>the file shall be saved (locally) or opened and then asking if it shall be 
>uploaded when the app finished.
>
It is a problem.  Sometimes users aren't aware that they're using FTP 
and they expect transparent functionality.  This is tested on a small 
focus group I set up.

>Sorry, I misunderstood (I thought you were talking about xterm). But I fail to 
>see how your approach is better for this - KDE is run on the server, right? 
>How can it do some magic on the clients filesystem like creating links or 
>mounting devices?
>
The default configuration for KDE should be to create symlinks to all 
appropriate mount points it can know about (fstab, autofs, etcetera). 
 This is for the home/business user.  When using it on X-Terminals, it's 
the job of the sysadmin to create entries to the appropriate places 
(which would be the mount points for remote drives, etcetera).

>Yes, what version do you use? It worked when I tried it some time ago and it 
>does work with a cvs version from about a week ago. Or do you mean turning 
>the thing completely of?
>
3.0 mdk directly from the KDE web site.  I want a way to configure it 
from the CLI, too.  Or at least know where it's located.  I've searched 
my filesystem and still don't understand where.

>How can the computer automatically unmount a floppy? Mine has no way of 
>knowing when I want to eject the floppy because it is mechanical. So either I 
>risk losing data if I do not know about umount or I really should use 
>floppy:// And umounting after a set timeout is very bad IMO because I have no 
>control any more, whatsoever.
>
I grant you that the floppy/cdrom unmounting shouldn't be handled 
automatically.  This is the proposed scenario.

If the drive is listed on fstab as iso9660, vfat or whatnot, make so 
that the mount point has a distinct icon for the filesystem.  Entering 
the mount point mounts the drive, and RMB on the mountpoint allows to 
umount/eject.  If the drive is on an autofs map or is mounted via 
supermount, only take care of the eject issue.  Whatever the case is, 
create symlinks to the mount points or the autofs-listed drives/volumes 
on the DESKTOP or wherever.  As symlinks, they should inherit the 
properties of the directories pointed to, and automatically get 
mount/unmount/eject functionality via RMB.  99% of the cases, this will 
ease usage of the KDE desktop with removable/network volumes.  The other 
1% (X terms) will be taken care of by the sysadmin.
Moreover, distribution managers would be pleased since there would be 
less work involved in customizing KDE.

Is this so difficult to understand?  It seems like a natural extension 
of the idea to me.  Using .desktop files really is a usability and 
consistency concern.

>>Dumb question.  Evidently the user wants it to be mounted.  Maybe the
>>reminder to unmount is fair.
>>
>No, that is not evident. How about a directory where some nfs filesystem is 
>mounted to and I do not want to mount that, because I am just browsing the 
>filesystem?
>
You said it yourself, you want it to be mounted, you're browsing after 
all.  If you don't want it to be mounted, don't enter the directory then.

>Maybe we both do not understand each other directly, but how can hiding from 
>the user the need for a unmount be a good thing?
>
You're missing my point.  My proposal is not to "hide the unmount 
thing", it's to make all applications integrate better with the KDE 
desktop.  If not using autofs/supermount, the user would still need to 
unmount things manually.  Only with desktop-provied icons that go 
Unmount on the appropriate RMB command, and are chdir'able to.

>And unless floppy:// is 
>used, a unmount is needed. The user needs to be aware of this. And so the 
>user needs to know the basic UNIX concepts.
>And I do not see how it is better to put symlinks on the desktop than having a 
>special place where to mount/umount devices (the devices ioslave) and tell 
>users where the mountpoint is, so they can access it from other applications 
>as well.
>
>>URNs should only be used when there is really NO way to incorporate a
>>device\'s information into the UNIX namespace, whenever possible.  Maybe
>>for a audio-cd ioslave it\'s ok, but for a floppy, which can be
>>mounted/unmounted regularly? Not the correct solution, in my opinion. 
>>It\'s not bad that we have it.  It\'s that we should STANDARDIZE on one
>>solution for the ENTIRE desktop, and the solution that limits itself to
>>only KDE-only apps (as opposed to any other UNIX app) and PCs (as opposed
>>to terminal servers) is not acceptable by any standard.  Remember that the
>>most savings come from terminal server installations.
>>
>Please tell me how your solution works on a terminal server. I do not know 
>much about those, but I always assumed that once you login to the server via 
>kdm/xdm you work on the server and have no local access anymore, whatsoever. 
>Am I wrong?
>
If you are using remote drives, the Floppy thingie on the KFileSave 
dialog should point to a mount point folder of a floppy, or customizable 
via login scripts.  But KDE still needs the functionality to 
mount/unmount if this is the case, and to show the appropriate icon.

 
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