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List: kde-core-devel
Subject: Re: Dropping Debian support (Was: LinuxTag impressions)
From: mosfet <mosfet () mandrakesoft ! com>
Date: 2000-07-09 22:48:20
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Richard Moore wrote:
>
> mosfet wrote:
> >
> > Richard Moore wrote:
> > >
> > > mosfet wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Richard Moore wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > mosfet wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Faure wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 09, 2000 at 03:56:51PM -0700, Waldo Bastian wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 07 Jul 2000, Matthias Ettrich wrote:
> > > > > > > > > But what were the reactions of the Debian hobby lawyers? Instead of taking
> > > > > > > > > the ball and contributing to an open and fruitful discussion, they changed
> > > > > > > > > strategy. Trolltech and Qt no longer is a problem, but KDE, because it's
> > > > > > > > > KDE that writes the free code. That clearly indicates (at least for me)
> > > > > > > > > that their main interest is to disturb free software development under the
> > > > > > > > > KDE banner rather than trying to find a solution for them to ship it
> > > > > > > > > without losing their face.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Matthias
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why do we still have seperate "debian" directories all over KDE? We don't
> > > > > > > > have "RedHat" or "SuSE" directories. I propose we drop this. I see no reason
> > > > > > > > why we should give debian a preferred treatment over other distro's.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hmm, we have spec files, for building RPMs of KDE for many distros...
> > > > > > > It definitely helps, to have the tools for building binary packages as part
> > > > > > > of CVS.... but I understand your anger against those... pseudo-lawyers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm for dropping this support. The other dists officially support us
> > > > > > thus they get offical support from us. Debian officially does not
> > > > > > support the KDE project, and thus should get similiar treatment.
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand the temptation, but this seems a little extreme. My
> > > > > reasoning is that it is rather childish - I also see no reason to
> > > > > make the people who are building KDE Deb packages have any more
> > > > > hassle than they have already got. I don't care if Debian include
> > > > > KDE or not, but I do think we should avoid stopping those who want
> > > > > to correct Debian's pig-headedness by doing it themselves from
> > > > > getting on with it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > If Debian's position is that KDE is bad, and they continue to spread FUD
> > > > about the project in the media, why should we make special provisions
> > > > for them to use our software?
> > >
> > > As I said I don't care about Debian. I do however care that there
> > > a bunch of kde users who have spent the time to make sure that people
> > > who run Debian can use KDE, and install it easily. I agree we should
> > > make no special provisions, which is why I asked if anyone can explain
> > > the need for its own directory rather than simply some sort of spec
> > > file as used by the other distros.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Most linux distributors view KDE as an essential component to selling
> > > > Linux CD's. Users demand it. One way KDE can fight back is by simply not
> > > > assiting Debian in making use of our software which they officially
> > > > degrade.
> > >
> > > But Debian doesn't use these files AFAIK. KDE users using Debian or
> > > building packages for Debian use them. Why should those users be
> > > penalised because their distro is lame?
> > >
> >
> > Well, *we* the free software developers are being penalized because
> > their distro is lame! If we drop support perhaps the users (or the loss
> > of them) will help Debian act in a more reasonable manner.
>
> If that was true, I would be very happy. I suspect we would still
> not get Debian to be reasonable if we walked around wearing sackcloth
> and ashes!
>
> I agree it would be nice to move these directories, but I think that
> keeping the Debian support will do us a lot of good. For one thing I
> expect that almost every Debian reseller will include KDE, so it
> really doesn't matter a damn what the Debian bosses think. If we can
> move them then great, but I don't think we should arbrarily remove
> them. That would exactly what the idiots at Debian would do in this
> circumstance.
>
It's certainly not an arbitrary position.
Right now Debian is getting what amounts to the best of both worlds.
They can continue to both bash KDE publically and refuse to officially
support it while keeping the considerable amount of KDE users by
pointing them to unoffical packages. While we cannot stop this behavior,
we certainly should not be assiting it.
There is no legal basis for Debian to exclude literally hundreds of KDE
applications (not just libs!). I'm not going to reiterate what I have
said before - if your interested in the topic look at last months posts
in my name on kde-license on the mailing list archives.
I've even offered to go over each application with them in order to
assure there is no conflict. I've thus far gotten no official response.
This being the case, if Debian is not willing to officially support KDE
packages we should not be assiting the development of unoffical packages
and helping them keep the KDE user base (a huge number of Debian
users!). This is bad business. If they are willing to offically support
our apps (not just libs) then fine. I would be okay if they would just
stop posting vague and incorrect legal FUD. Since that's not the case
it's foolish for us to be giving them free help in the form of packaging
data.
> Rich.
>
> >
> > > Rich.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Asking why Debian needs separate directories like this is reasonable
> > > > > however, can anyone explain?
> > > > >
> > > > > Rich.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > David FAURE, david@mandrakesoft.com, faure@kde.org
> > > > > > > http://home.clara.net/faure/, http://www.konqueror.org/
> > > > > > > KDE, Making The Future of Computing Available Today
> > > > > > > See http://www.kde.org/kde1-and-kde2.html for how to set up KDE 2
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Richard Moore rich@ipso-facto.freeserve.co.uk
> > > > > http://www.robocast.com/ richard@robocast.com
> > > > > http://developer.kde.org/ rich@kde.org
> > >
> > > --
> > > Richard Moore rich@ipso-facto.freeserve.co.uk
> > > http://www.robocast.com/ richard@robocast.com
> > > http://developer.kde.org/ rich@kde.org
>
> --
> Richard Moore rich@ipso-facto.freeserve.co.uk
> http://www.robocast.com/ richard@robocast.com
> http://developer.kde.org/ rich@kde.org
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