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List:       kde-core-devel
Subject:    Re: Mac-menu is _not_ faster
From:       mosfet <mosfet () mandrakesoft ! com>
Date:       2000-04-28 20:54:23
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Michael Matz wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, mosfet wrote:
> 
> > Mac menu *is* faster, the reason why it was not faster for you is
> > because your window was always in the same place (smack in the middle of
> > the screen) and there was only one ;-)
> 
> If that would be the reason, then if I had moved the window in between, or
> had used more windows (in my original mail I showed a scenario where it is
> worse to have a mac menu with more than one window), mac menu would also
> be faster for me, wouldn't it?
> 
> OK, if I had moved the window, nonetheless the relative position of the
> menu in normal mode and the absolute position in mac mode would be the
> same, whereever the window is. If one understands that in normal mode the
> position of the menu is relative that makes no speed difference, esp. if
> one assumes, that the main app window is not moved around every second,
> and so the menu position is even absolut constant over a large time.
> 

Your missing the point. The *absolute* position of the menu in normal
mode is different, and that is what matters. If the absolute position is
different from window to window then it requires you to target the
mouse.

> The other thing: more windows. While I understand, that in mac mode the
> menubar is on the same place on top of screen, and therefore its not
> possible to accidently activate another window which is unfortunately
> possible to do in normal mode (I guess that is the reason you brought up
> the case of multiple windows), mac mode has other issues with more than
> one window (see my first mail). So that is also no argument for mac mode
> (it also not one against mac mode either).
>

Works fine on the Mac, works fine in KDE. I used it in KDE1 for months,
and on Apple's for years ;-) 
 
> > Mac vs. windows menus has been timed on many occasions by people's
> > whose entire job is studying UI's.
> 
> Then why has BeOS no Macmenubar? I know that this timing on many occasions
> is brought up every time the Mac/other position-flamewar starts (not only
> here) but I'm somehow not sure all these measurement where done in a
> neutral environment (meaning no religious people (of either side) test no
> apps specifically designed for this or that menu style)
>

*Shrug*, dunno. Ask them. I would suppose the same reason MS doesn't -
they are afraid of being sued by Apple ;-)
 
> > See "Fitts Law".
> 
> If I remember correctly the aspects of it having to do with menu style are
> time to reach the item and safety to not select a thing one did not want
> to select. For macmode the time is greater, but the safety also. I think
> that both compensate each other, so that this is also no argument
> specifically for mac menus.
>

I think your wrong. Actually I know you are, at least for me and most
labs to test it ;-)
 
> Besides that the name "Fitts Law" is not really nice, because it depends
> on many things which can't be calculated exactly. A law for me is
> sth. like "If I add to a natural number another natural number, the result
> is greater than both of them". Thats a law, and that's science. While UI
> designing is, erhh, well... guessing? riddling? something like that.
>

It is a law, it is valid, and I'm glad we support it ;-)
 
> Ciao,
> Michael.
> 
> P.S: I think that mac menus are not better than normal menus. If there was
> not the case of multiple windows used simultanous and illogicality (sp?)
> of connection window<->menu, I would also think they are not worse than
> normal menus. So I would not have a strong opinion for one or the other,
> _if_ there were not the inconsistencies brought up in the other thread
> specific to KDE. But that is not my point. My point is only the claim that
> mac menus are somehow better than the other style.

Sure they are! I keep on telling you why ;-)

-- 
Daniel M. Duley - Unix developer & sys admin.
http://www.mosfet.org - The place for KDE development news.
mosfet@mandrakesoft.com
mosfet@kde.org

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