--nextPart1663391.9GSIxqAyrI Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Friday 09 May 2014 09:54:53 John Layt wrote: > On 8 May 2014 13:56, Sebastian K=C3=BCgler wrote: > > On Thursday, May 08, 2014 14:39:49 Matthias Klumpp wrote: > >> However, to support the cross-desktop efforts, the GNOME people sh= ould > >> maybe make a few compromises (e.g. make GTK+ behave differently on= > >> other DEs), especially since GTK+ is not just for GNOME but also u= sed > >> by other projects. > >=20 > > This is actually at the root of all these problems. The GTK develop= ers > > have at some point decided to couple the toolkit with the GNOME des= ktop, > > so GTK is -- in their view -- the toolkit for GNOME. It seems, the > > developers lost interest in keeping their cross-platform and > > cross-desktop promise. This is visible in other areas as well, such= as > > theming: Theming APIs have been unstable and changed will-nilly for= some > > time now, and the revolt of theme creators has calmed down by now (= I > > suppose they all just walked away). I suppose this CSD episode will= just > > speed up this exodus. > >=20 > > We might be looking at a completely different GTK here than we did = a few > > years ago, and that's pretty bad news for interoperability on the > > freedesktop. > Exactly, they seem to have forgotten what the G actually stands for >=20 > :-) Which makes me wonder how apps like Gimp who use Gtk but are not= >=20 > part of Gnome and want to be cross-desktop and cross-platform are > going to be affected? And how are the other Gtk desktops like XFCE > affected? XFCE is affected in that way that GTK developers opened bug reports aga= inst=20 XFCE that their window manager is broken (stating it's the only one not= =20 supporting that, well KWin neither). >=20 > Pardon my ignorance, but does Gtk impose CSD on all apps, or just > those apps that opt-in to using it? I'm assuming it's opt-in, in > which case perhaps the app authors don't realise the implication for > other desktops/platforms? If they do realise what it means then > that's their decision to only support Gnome and I don't see why we > should even bother to try work around it: if it looks ugly elsewhere > and that costs them users, that's their problem not ours. I'm not sure whether it's opt-in. Using the gtk3-demo and the gallery o= ne can=20 find many examples which enforce client-side-decorations. E.g. the stan= dard=20 message box dialog example. >=20 > Either way, it seems to me that the Gtk app and desktop authors may b= e > the people in the best position to influence Gtk to work on these > issues, the Gtk maintainers may not care about what KDE thinks, but > you'd hope that they would listen to their own users. Perhaps if/whe= n > the direct approach fails, we need to raise bugs reports against the > apps themselves to get their authors interested? >=20 > John. >=20 > P.S. If Gtk keep this up, we could see another surge in apps switchin= g > to Qt, and that presents a great opportunity for KDE as a community > interested in being cross-platform/desktop --nextPart1663391.9GSIxqAyrI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAlNsmiMACgkQqVXwidMiVrpuIwCdGBX6yMD+/6h41IkTWAed+558 /H8AnRfT/dxjxkIyBnn5KGiYSv3rOjZX =8+hl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1663391.9GSIxqAyrI--