On Thursday, December 19, 2013 02:27:43 AM Mark Gaiser wrote: > On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Jos Poortvliet >=20 > wrote: > > On Tuesday 17 December 2013 12:22:26 Todd wrote: > >> On Dec 12, 2013 6:36 PM, "Vishesh Handa" wrote: > >> > > i=E2=80=99ll say it again here so that it is at least on recor= d: i really > >>=20 > >> disagree > >>=20 > >> > > with renaming Nepomuk. call it Nepomuk 2 or whatever, but toss= ing > >> > > aside > >> > > name recognition and years of messaging is doing the promo tea= ms a > >>=20 > >> massive > >>=20 > >> > > disservice. > >> > >=20 > >> > > i hope that Baloo remains a technology name well hidden from b= oth > >> > > users > >>=20 > >> and > >>=20 > >> > > developers. > >> >=20 > >> > It will remain hidden. > >>=20 > >> I am a bit confused by this. You say it will remain hidden, but th= e > >> emails > >> I am seeing are calling for the outright removal of Nepomuk api ca= lls and > >> replacing them with baloo API calls. This does not seen very hidd= en from > >> developers. > >>=20 > >> Further, you talk about disabling Nepomuk in system settings. Thi= s does > >> not seem very hidden from users. > >>=20 > >> So, although I cannot speak for him, I am not sure Aaron's brandin= g > >> concerns are being addressed. > >=20 > > In that regard - the promo team is also a bit uncertain on this. We= > > strongly advocated presenting Baloo as Nepomuk-next-gen, NOT a > > replacement or a rewrite-from-scratch. > >=20 > > About the name - as Nepomuk also has its share of haters, I can't r= eally > > judge if a rename has a net positive- or negative marketing value s= o I > > simply didn't and won't argue for or against it. Any real argument = would > > need market research - which we can't really do very reliably. Unle= ss > > somebody knows a web service which can judge the value of a word th= at > > internet users seem to attach to it or something like that :D > >=20 > >> Now if this was keeping the Nepomuk namespace and billing baloo as= a > >> replacement for virtuoso, then I could see this as being hidden, e= ven > >> with > >> substantial changes in how the APIs actually work. But not when b= oth > >> APIs > >> and user settings are being renamed. > >>=20 > >> If any news site catches wind of this, I don't see how they could = present > >> it as anything other than an outright abandonment of Nepomuk, and = once > >> that > >> view gets spread around the web no amount of branding later will c= hange > >> it. > >=20 > > That we need to avoid. That is also why this mail was discussed wit= h > > marketing before it was send (heck, Vishesh and myself discussed th= is at > >=20 > > least a year ago already) and it is why it states: > >> This is not a completely new project as large parts of Baloo code = are > >> derived from Nepomuk and therefore comes with years of testing and= real > >> world use. > >=20 > > Of course, this could be made more obvious and once we 'officially'= say > > something, we should take care with this. And we will. > >=20 > > That press can pick this up from here - is the price of doing thing= s in > > the > > open... >=20 > I don't see an issue for "the marketing" folks. >=20 > Lets make a little comparison. > KHTML comes to mind. Some company (apple in this case) came by, forke= d > it and created the now quite awesome webkit. That in turn got forked > to Blink by google. It's just the evolution of software. And now we'r= e > using webkit/blink in QML. Not KHTML. >=20 > Nepomuk was great in spirit, but started off with issues users > experienced as annoying. So it was "forked" into a new project (Baloo= ) > and now works a lot saner and faster. It might be "abandoning" > nepomuk, but as far as i understand it, it's not abandoning the > nepomuk ideas. Just another evolution. >=20 > Or this is how i see things in my simple mind :) >=20 > But there is one thing the marketing people could do here. If "a > popular linux news site" picks this thread up the title will likely b= e > "KDE drops Nepomuk" or something alike. That should be prevented. > There should be a dot story outlining the evolution from Nepomuk to > Baloo and the benefit the user will notice. >=20 > just my 5 cents. It might help to get Sebastian Trueg to back it publically. Assuming he= agrees=20 with this direction, that is :). Failing that, stressing that this is b= eing=20 done by the very maintainers of nepomuk, evolving it, rather than forki= ng it,=20 might be best. While I am personally quite excited about finally getting this importan= t part=20 of the PIM stack to the point where we can deliver on the potential of = our=20 work over the past years, I do worry about the perception impact this w= ill=20 have. I'd also be tempted to provide continuity and position Baloo as p= art of=20 or an extension to Nepomuk as subsystem. Till