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List: kde-core-devel
Subject: Re: Plasma Workspaces 4.11: the last feature release in the 4.xseries for kde-workspace
From: "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date: 2013-05-06 8:02:01
Message-ID: 1942973.oNjcIkQYpn () freedom
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On Saturday, May 4, 2013 22:21:07 you wrote:
> approach would have had no technical advantage other than working around
> the pointless freeze.
i understand the freeze is pointless to you. it is not pointless to others.
> (Quite the opposite, the plugin approach that was
> suggested would have introduced a circular dependency in distribution
> packages.)
a possible solution: the secret service plugin would be considered a runtime component and so
would depend on kdelibs and kde-runtime would depend on the plugin. no circular
dependencies.
that occured to me after thinking about it for all of 20 seconds, and i'm not even a packager.
> It's no wonder the KSecrets developer didn't have the time
> and/or motivation to rewrite all his code for that approach.
there was no need for to rewrite all the code, not even a significant portion of it.
> The version that got released didn't work at all:
> * replacing KWallet didn't work because the kdelibs patch was rejected and
> the suggested plugin-based solution was never implemented,
> * replacing gnome-keyring didn't actually work either, and the bug(s) which
> prevented that from working was/were never fixed because the project got
> abandoned due to the kdelibs freeze.
let me point out the obvious: if that small amount of work prevented progress for the last year or
so, what does that say about the future maintenance of that code? while i'm unhappy that the
secret service implementation is not there, i'd be equally unhappy with yet more code in kdelibs
that goes unmaintained.
putting code into kdelibs is a commitment. if someone is unable to make that commitment, that
code should not be in kdelibs.
let's not pretend that this was the first pause in development of that code base, either.
> > hopefully you can put it in a repository that can be used by kdelibs which
> > would both get around the 4.x kdelibs freeze *and* prepare it for
> > frameworks.
>
> I'm not the KSecrets developer.
given how much you evidently care about it, maybe you could be.
in the spirit of fair play: i'm trying to be very patient in this conversation, as i understand this is a
matter that means a lot to you. i do not appreciate how you are going about it, nor do i think you
bringing this issue up yet again in a thread that is not about the kdelibs freeze is proper. i'm pretty
confident you will reply to this email, but i hope you'll excuse me if i don't return the favour as this
is not a discussion i feel i can be productive in.
--
Aaron J. Seigo
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p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
</style></head><body style=" font-family:'Bitstream Vera Sans'; font-size:12pt; \
font-weight:400; font-style:normal;"> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">On \
Saturday, May 4, 2013 22:21:07 you wrote:</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
approach would have had no technical advantage other than working around</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> the pointless freeze.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">i understand the freeze is pointless to you. it is not pointless to \
others.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> (Quite the opposite, the plugin approach that was</p> \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> suggested would have introduced a \
circular dependency in distribution</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
packages.)</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">a possible solution: the secret service plugin would be \
considered a runtime component and so would depend on kdelibs and kde-runtime would depend on \
the plugin. no circular dependencies.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">that occured to me after thinking about \
it for all of 20 seconds, and i'm not even a packager.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> It's no wonder \
the KSecrets developer didn't have the time</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
and/or motivation to rewrite all his code for that approach.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">there was no need for to rewrite all the code, not even a significant \
portion of it.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> The version that got released didn't work at all:</p> \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> * replacing KWallet didn't work \
because the kdelibs patch was rejected and</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
the suggested plugin-based solution was never implemented,</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> * replacing gnome-keyring didn't actually work either, and the bug(s) \
which</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> prevented that from working \
was/were never fixed because the project got</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
abandoned due to the kdelibs freeze.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">let me point out the obvious: if that \
small amount of work prevented progress for the last year or so, what does that say about the \
future maintenance of that code? while i'm unhappy that the secret service implementation is \
not there, i'd be equally unhappy with yet more code in kdelibs that goes unmaintained.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">putting code into kdelibs is a commitment. if someone is unable to make that \
commitment, that code should not be in kdelibs.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">let's not pretend \
that this was the first pause in development of that code base, either.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> > hopefully you can put it in a repository that can be used by \
kdelibs which</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > would both \
get around the 4.x kdelibs freeze *and* prepare it for</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> > frameworks.</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> I'm not the KSecrets \
developer.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">given how much you evidently care about it, maybe you could \
be.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">in the spirit of fair play: i'm trying to be very patient in this \
conversation, as i understand this is a matter that means a lot to you. i do not appreciate how \
you are going about it, nor do i think you bringing this issue up yet again in a thread that is \
not about the kdelibs freeze is proper. i'm pretty confident you will reply to this email, but \
i hope you'll excuse me if i don't return the favour as this is not a discussion i feel i can \
be productive in.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">-- </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">Aaron J. Seigo</p></body></html>
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