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List: kde-core-devel
Subject: Re: Plasma Workspaces 4.11: the last feature release in the 4.xseries for kde-workspace
From: "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date: 2013-05-06 8:02:01
Message-ID: 1942973.oNjcIkQYpn () freedom
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On Saturday, May 4, 2013 22:21:07 you wrote:
> approach would have had no technical advantage other than working around
> the pointless freeze.
i understand the freeze is pointless to you. it is not pointless to others.
> (Quite the opposite, the plugin approach that was
> suggested would have introduced a circular dependency in distribution
> packages.)
a possible solution: the secret service plugin would be considered a \
runtime component and so would depend on kdelibs and kde-runtime would \
depend on the plugin. no circular dependencies.
that occured to me after thinking about it for all of 20 seconds, and i'm \
not even a packager.
> It's no wonder the KSecrets developer didn't have the time
> and/or motivation to rewrite all his code for that approach.
there was no need for to rewrite all the code, not even a significant \
portion of it.
> The version that got released didn't work at all:
> * replacing KWallet didn't work because the kdelibs patch was rejected \
> and the suggested plugin-based solution was never implemented,
> * replacing gnome-keyring didn't actually work either, and the bug(s) \
> which prevented that from working was/were never fixed because the \
> project got abandoned due to the kdelibs freeze.
let me point out the obvious: if that small amount of work prevented \
progress for the last year or so, what does that say about the future \
maintenance of that code? while i'm unhappy that the secret service \
implementation is not there, i'd be equally unhappy with yet more code in \
kdelibs that goes unmaintained.
putting code into kdelibs is a commitment. if someone is unable to make \
that commitment, that code should not be in kdelibs.
let's not pretend that this was the first pause in development of that code \
base, either.
> > hopefully you can put it in a repository that can be used by kdelibs \
> > which would both get around the 4.x kdelibs freeze *and* prepare it for
> > frameworks.
>
> I'm not the KSecrets developer.
given how much you evidently care about it, maybe you could be.
in the spirit of fair play: i'm trying to be very patient in this \
conversation, as i understand this is a matter that means a lot to you. i \
do not appreciate how you are going about it, nor do i think you bringing \
this issue up yet again in a thread that is not about the kdelibs freeze is \
proper. i'm pretty confident you will reply to this email, but i hope \
you'll excuse me if i don't return the favour as this is not a discussion \
i feel i can be productive in.
--
Aaron J. Seigo
[Attachment #5 (unknown)]
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN" \
"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd"> <html><head><meta \
name="qrichtext" content="1" /><style type="text/css"> p, li { white-space: \
pre-wrap; } </style></head><body style=" font-family:'Bitstream Vera Sans'; \
font-size:12pt; font-weight:400; font-style:normal;"> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">On Saturday, May 4, \
2013 22:21:07 you wrote:</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> approach would have had no technical advantage \
other than working around</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> the pointless freeze.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">i \
understand the freeze is pointless to you. it is not pointless to \
others.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> (Quite the opposite, the plugin approach that \
was</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> suggested would have introduced a circular \
dependency in distribution</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> packages.)</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">a \
possible solution: the secret service plugin would be considered a runtime \
component and so would depend on kdelibs and kde-runtime would depend on \
the plugin. no circular dependencies.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">that occured to me after thinking about it for all of 20 \
seconds, and i'm not even a packager.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> It's no wonder the KSecrets developer didn't have \
the time</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> and/or motivation to rewrite all his code for that \
approach.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">there was no need for to rewrite all the code, not even \
a significant portion of it.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> The version \
that got released didn't work at all:</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> * replacing KWallet didn't work \
because the kdelibs patch was rejected and</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> the suggested plugin-based \
solution was never implemented,</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> * replacing gnome-keyring didn't \
actually work either, and the bug(s) which</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> prevented that from working \
was/were never fixed because the project got</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> abandoned due to the kdelibs \
freeze.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">let me point out the obvious: if that small amount of \
work prevented progress for the last year or so, what does that say about \
the future maintenance of that code? while i'm unhappy that the secret \
service implementation is not there, i'd be equally unhappy with yet more \
code in kdelibs that goes unmaintained.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">putting code into kdelibs is a commitment. if someone is \
unable to make that commitment, that code should not be in kdelibs.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">let's not pretend that this was the first pause in \
development of that code base, either.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> > hopefully you can put it in a repository that \
can be used by kdelibs which</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > would both get around the 4.x \
kdelibs freeze *and* prepare it for</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > frameworks.</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> </p> <p \
style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> I'm not the KSecrets developer.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
"> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">given how much you evidently care about it, maybe you \
could be.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">in the spirit of \
fair play: i'm trying to be very patient in this conversation, as i \
understand this is a matter that means a lot to you. i do not appreciate \
how you are going about it, nor do i think you bringing this issue up yet \
again in a thread that is not about the kdelibs freeze is proper. i'm \
pretty confident you will reply to this email, but i hope you'll excuse me \
if i don't return the favour as this is not a discussion i feel i can be \
productive in.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">-- </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">Aaron J. Seigo</p></body></html>
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