[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: kde-core-devel
Subject: Re: Input method integration for KDE 4.11
From: Mike Dean <miketdean () gmail ! com>
Date: 2013-01-26 7:35:13
Message-ID: CAH3haxL_Kiq_5NczBdj7wYC+YZ93ABKGM7bmQj0yz-WEw=w80g () mail ! gmail ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN.
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Andriy Rysin <arysin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am a current (even if somewhat recently passive :)) KDE keyboard module
> maintainer and I promised Weng to reply so here it goes.
>
> 1. I've never used IM and have pretty vague understanding how it works so
> I am open for discussion
> 2. I don't plan to use IM (current keyboard layout implementation in KDE
> is good enough for me), but I don't mind to take a look at it if it's
> implemented as an additional feature and I can play with it temporarily to
> see if it bring something cool for users like me
> 3. There's probably tons of users that like me are ok (more or less -
> there's still open bugs) with current keyboard layout support in KDE and we
> *cannot* break things for them, especially not in 4.x branch (although I
> suspect people would prefer things they use not being broken in 5.x as well
> :))
> 4. There's tons of features requests implemented and bugs fixed in KDE
> keyboard module for last 10 years, this is the baggage I would not just
> trash
> 5. I have story of GNOME keyboard module maintainer leaving after dozen of
> years of development because keyboard layouts management code in GNOME was
> superseded by IM module
> 6. I have also stories that GNOME keyboard layouts got pretty much
> unusable for many users after this switch (unless you do the trick to
> activate old code)
> 7. Now having said that I also agree that many people need IM and also
> that keyboard layout module and IM are trying to do pretty much the same
> thing (at high level that is), so making them work together (or at least
> show up together for the user in UI) would be the right way to go; actually
> there's pretty old feature request (https://bugs.kde.org/show_**
> bug.cgi?id=109845 <https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109845>) to do
> exactly that
> 8. With 1-7 in mind I would say I am in favor of adding IM module to KDE,
> as long as:
> a) it does not override, remove, or hide existing keyboard layout
> module
> b) it is off by default (like keyboard layout module itself)
> c) it makes sense that if IM is turned on, keyboard layout
> configuration (or to be exact some part of it) will be disabled (as it's
> functionality is taken over by IM)
> d) as user needs to see which module (IM or keyboard layout) is
> active, the IM control UI should reside in the same UI as keyboard layout
> (I would suggest another tab), thus when user enables IM he can easily see
> which parts of keyboard module is taken over by IM and which he still can
> (or should) change
> e) there's still some functionality from the old module that will be
> useful even if IM is active (i.e. xkb options to define keys behavior) - we
> need to analyze which parts are taken over by IM activation and which ones
> work in parallel
>
> I looked a bit at the code below at github and I don't see it doing
> anything special, if I understand it right it just allows to configure
> which IM module to use and pass some parameters, kded module then will take
> care of IM daemon/qt module activation. Somebody who uses and understands
> IM probably should try it to see if it works and if it does we can target
> this for 4.11 if we can meet criteria in 8.
>
> I'll update the bug 109845 to point to this conversation in case somebody
> there is still interested enough to get involved.
>
> Regards,
> Andriy
>
> P.S. adding kde-core-devel as even though it's not about core libs, it
> still about core KDE workspace functionality
>
> On 01/15/2013 03:11 PM, Weng Xuetian wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Under linux, input method is always being a mess:
>> 1. Start it correctly
>> ubuntu, debian: im-switch, im-config
>> fedora: imsettings
>> opensuse: their own script and I don't really know package name about it.
>>
>> im-switch and im-config have bug so long time, and all of them are distro
>> specific.
>>
>> 2. Relation betwen keyboard layout and input method
>> Agree it or not, keyboard layout is only a kinds of special input method,
>> and
>> it should live with input method,
>>
>> Now, more and more input method are taking care of keyboard layout (which
>> means it would just conflict with kde's own keyboard layout settings), but
>> it's the correct way to go:
>> Here comes my beloved usecase :D
>> User is using a Chinese input method, which expect it to be something
>> similar
>> with qwerty, but if you're using a de layout, it will type some non-sense
>> character.
>>
>> And idea is, input method have layout on its own, and should be take care
>> by
>> input method itself (if they can).
>>
>> So, leaving user with keyboard layout settings provided by kde if input
>> method
>> can already handle it doesn't make any sense.
>>
>> Under upper idea, I wrote some code, now it's only complete the idea 1.
>> https://github.com/csslayer/**kde-input-method<https://github.com/csslayer/kde-input-method>
>>
>> Currently it only have fcitx's profile for test (since I'm selffish fcitx
>> dev), but it's trivial to add others (gcin, hime, ibus, maliit).
>>
>> It provides distro independent start up and environment handling (by
>> global
>> kde env script), input method process starting and monitoring (by kded).
>>
>> BTW kded part can be also adopted by plasma-active.
>>
>> Configure button in kcm is not implemented yet.
>>
>> Currently it has its own kcm, which I want to have it sit in
>> kcm-component-
>> chooser. And for backward compatibilty, it can be switch to "none" and in
>> that
>> way nothing will be affected.
>>
>> And I need input from kcm-keyboard maintainer (already in CC) and non-CJK
>> people. I'm not sure about which list should be CC to, so I only send to
>> kde-
>> devel for now.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Xuetian
>>
>
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br></div>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM \
THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT \
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. \
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. YOUR \
UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>I WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS \
MAILING LIST. YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE IS BROKEN. UNSUBSCRIBE ME!<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, \
Jan 25, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Andriy Rysin <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:arysin@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">arysin@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi<br> <br>
I am a current (even if somewhat recently passive :)) KDE keyboard module \
maintainer and I promised Weng to reply so here it goes.<br> <br>
1. I've never used IM and have pretty vague understanding how it works \
so I am open for discussion<br> 2. I don't plan to use IM (current \
keyboard layout implementation in KDE is good enough for me), but I \
don't mind to take a look at it if it's implemented as an \
additional feature and I can play with it temporarily to see if it bring \
something cool for users like me<br>
3. There's probably tons of users that like me are ok (more or less - \
there's still open bugs) with current keyboard layout support in KDE \
and we *cannot* break things for them, especially not in 4.x branch \
(although I suspect people would prefer things they use not being broken in \
5.x as well :))<br>
4. There's tons of features requests implemented and bugs fixed in KDE \
keyboard module for last 10 years, this is the baggage I would not just \
trash<br> 5. I have story of GNOME keyboard module maintainer leaving after \
dozen of years of development because keyboard layouts management code in \
GNOME was superseded by IM module<br> 6. I have also stories that GNOME \
keyboard layouts got pretty much unusable for many users after this switch \
(unless you do the trick to activate old code)<br> 7. Now having said that \
I also agree that many people need IM and also that keyboard layout module \
and IM are trying to do pretty much the same thing (at high level that is), \
so making them work together (or at least show up together for the user in \
UI) would be the right way to go; actually there's pretty old feature \
request (<a href="https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109845" \
target="_blank">https://bugs.kde.org/show_<u></u>bug.cgi?id=109845</a>) to \
do exactly that<br>
8. With 1-7 in mind I would say I am in favor of adding IM module to KDE, \
as long as:<br> a) it does not override, remove, or hide existing keyboard \
layout module<br> b) it is off by default (like keyboard layout module \
itself)<br> c) it makes sense that if IM is turned on, keyboard layout \
configuration (or to be exact some part of it) will be disabled (as \
it's functionality is taken over by IM)<br> d) as user needs to see \
which module (IM or keyboard layout) is active, the IM control UI should \
reside in the same UI as keyboard layout (I would suggest another tab), \
thus when user enables IM he can easily see which parts of keyboard module \
is taken over by IM and which he still can (or should) change<br>
e) there's still some functionality from the old module that will \
be useful even if IM is active (i.e. xkb options to define keys behavior) - \
we need to analyze which parts are taken over by IM activation and which \
ones work in parallel<br>
<br>
I looked a bit at the code below at github and I don't see it doing \
anything special, if I understand it right it just allows to configure \
which IM module to use and pass some parameters, kded module then will take \
care of IM daemon/qt module activation. Somebody who uses and understands \
IM probably should try it to see if it works and if it does we can target \
this for 4.11 if we can meet criteria in 8.<br>
<br>
I'll update the bug 109845 to point to this conversation in case \
somebody there is still interested enough to get involved.<br> <br>
Regards,<br>
Andriy<br>
<br>
P.S. adding kde-core-devel as even though it's not about core libs, it \
still about core KDE workspace functionality<br> <br>
On 01/15/2013 03:11 PM, Weng Xuetian wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hi,<br>
Under linux, input method is always being a mess:<br>
1. Start it correctly<br>
ubuntu, debian: im-switch, im-config<br>
fedora: imsettings<br>
opensuse: their own script and I don't really know package name about \
it.<br> <br>
im-switch and im-config have bug so long time, and all of them are \
distro<br> specific.<br>
<br>
2. Relation betwen keyboard layout and input method<br>
Agree it or not, keyboard layout is only a kinds of special input method, \
and<br> it should live with input method,<br>
<br>
Now, more and more input method are taking care of keyboard layout \
(which<br> means it would just conflict with kde's own keyboard layout \
settings), but<br> it's the correct way to go:<br>
Here comes my beloved usecase :D<br>
User is using a Chinese input method, which expect it to be something \
similar<br> with qwerty, but if you're using a de layout, it will type \
some non-sense<br> character.<br>
<br>
And idea is, input method have layout on its own, and should be take care \
by<br> input method itself (if they can).<br>
<br>
So, leaving user with keyboard layout settings provided by kde if input \
method<br> can already handle it doesn't make any sense.<br>
<br>
Under upper idea, I wrote some code, now it's only complete the idea \
1.<br> <a href="https://github.com/csslayer/kde-input-method" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/csslayer/<u></u>kde-input-method</a><br> \
<br> Currently it only have fcitx's profile for test (since I'm \
selffish fcitx<br> dev), but it's trivial to add others (gcin, hime, \
ibus, maliit).<br> <br>
It provides distro independent start up and environment handling (by \
global<br> kde env script), input method process starting and monitoring \
(by kded).<br> <br>
BTW kded part can be also adopted by plasma-active.<br>
<br>
Configure button in kcm is not implemented yet.<br>
<br>
Currently it has its own kcm, which I want to have it sit in \
kcm-component-<br> chooser. And for backward compatibilty, it can be switch \
to "none" and in that<br> way nothing will be affected.<br>
<br>
And I need input from kcm-keyboard maintainer (already in CC) and \
non-CJK<br> people. I'm not sure about which list should be CC to, so I \
only send to kde-<br> devel for now.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Xuetian<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic