From kde-core-devel Fri Feb 24 17:32:10 2012 From: Andras Mantia Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:32:10 +0000 To: kde-core-devel Subject: Re: bugzilla situation Message-Id: <1924570.2icJla81ZX () stein> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-core-devel&m=133010479409060 On Friday, February 24, 2012 06:10:23 PM Thomas L=C3=BCbking wrote: > Am 24.02.2012, 09:44 Uhr, schrieb Andras Mantia : > > Bugzilla is not a to-do list, it is for what else... a bug (and wis= hlist) > > reporting tool for users. >=20 > The problem here that this is noise prone and the low entropy isn't > helping anyone (and i'm not talking about users should not state thei= r > opinion or whatever) The point is you can't avoid noise. How would you do that?=20 Remove Dr. Konqui? Close bugzilla to the public and allow only for some= to=20 report? Moderate it? If you can moderate it, it means you have time and resource to do it, = so you=20 could have done until now as well. The rest is not a real solution (may= be Dr.=20 Konqui is, but then you will also lose valid reports). Any other suggestion? > Luckily this isn't a must. > a) NO system message should be posted to bugs (adding CC etc. isn't b= ut is > available in bug activities, so why is duping or Dr. Konqi attaching = a > trace?) > b) change the DEFAULT message order to "description" -> newest -> old= est, > users (passing by) will not edit bugzilla presets (if ever they know = about) With this I agree, we could tweak the defaults. > c) make the "description" (that is the original report message) edita= ble > by component owners ANYTIME - this here: Bug editing/cleaning up makes sense (still doesn't solve the ORIGINAL n= oise,=20 but indeed, you can clean it up), and indeed Bugzilla doesn't help with= it (at=20 least the current version), contrary to JIRA for example. But you still= have=20 the problem that you need to spend time to do that. > > If you wish to organize your tasks, I'm afraid you should do in ano= ther > > tool. >=20 > That doesn't cut it. *I* can organize my stuff in *my* *private* - bu= t > that information is entirely exclusive. > It doesn't change anything for anybody else and esp. not for the user= with > a problem. This was a suggestion for the project, not the individual. Bugzilla is = not a=20 task organizer. For that we have other tools, use them. Those entries m= ight=20 refer to bugzilla bugs. >=20 > > If you don't like users reporting bugs, close the product for bugzi= lla, > > ignore the users, and do what you want. >=20 > Nonsense. This is not about "I don't like hearing about bugs" but abo= ut "i > don't like my bugs being spammed" See above and my mail. IMO you can't avoid that with the userbase we ha= ve. You have to live with it. Of course, I was ironic, and I hope nobody wi= ll do=20 that, but I know there are developers from teams who don't really care = about=20 bugzilla reports. That's fine, I can accept it. =20 > > And if there pitfalls, common problems with your application in ce= rtain > >=20 > > setups, document them >=20 > Yes, best in a blog. /sarcasm Sure. :) BTW, if you refer to my Akonadi blogs, that content is more or= less=20 also in the userbase wiki and in KMail's manual nowadays. And seen it b= eing=20 used as a reference on IRC and user mailing list by others. So the info= rmation=20 spreads out. And google also finds it. > > and distribute to as many channels as possible >=20 > So users can search there for the solution? In a way hoping that thei= r > circles somehow match the developer ones? Yes.=20 > And you think, that's what they'll do instead pressing "report bug" i= n > Dr.Konqi? (what *is* the expected behavior and will usually take the = to > the right bug in short time. Maybe not for crashes, but there are more than crashes in applications.= I know, that I google many times if I have a problem. But I'm also a=20= developer, so users might not do that. But still, keeping things "secre= t"=20 won't help, you need to tell the solution everytime when somebody has a= =20 problem. > Developers and experienced users will google the issue up anyway. > Ubuntu users won't. They think "OMG, >>>I<<< have a problem. Best rep= ort > it and ask to get help" I'd skip this, as I don't want to categorize users. Certainly there are= some=20 hard to deal with, but this just proves what I said: you have to accept= the=20 situation. > > that large as kmail though), I only remember one case when the user= left > > upset. >=20 > This is not about the user being upset. That's the users problem ;-) Questionable. It is about an atmosphere problem in the community. I'm all for a better tool, that's not a problem, but blaming the users = for=20 reporting everything they have in mind is not a solution. They have a p= roblem,=20 that's why they turn to bugs.kde.org, and every problem you have is the= =20 biggest and most important on earth, no? Andras