From kde-core-devel Wed Jul 27 05:44:54 2011 From: Jos Poortvliet Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 05:44:54 +0000 To: kde-core-devel Subject: Re: Formal complaint concerning the use of the name "System Settings" Message-Id: <201107270744.58318.jos () opensuse ! org> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-core-devel&m=131179645702091 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--nextPart4026879.sPuhI0ePj6" --nextPart4026879.sPuhI0ePj6 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2011-07-23 Matthias wrote: > On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Jeremy Bicha =20 wrote: > > On 22 July 2011 17:17, Ben Cooksley wrote: > >=20 > > To be more specific about the problem, installing kde-workspace to > > a GNOME installation results in 2 indistinguishable apps named > > System Settings and 2 named System Monitor. On Ubuntu at least, if > > I want the GNOME version, I have to remember to click the first > > System Monitor but the second System Setting which is awfully > > frustrating. Here's a screenshot from my Ubuntu install: > > https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75745040/Gnome%20Shell%20screnshot.p > > ng >=20 > This is what happens when you mix and match bits and pieces from > different operating systems. There is really not much that can be > done about it. Since that is what both KDE and GNOME are trying to > do: build complete, self-contained systems. Arguably, KDE is a > little further along, with their big monolithic modules like > kde-workspace that drag in most of the desktop, while GNOME apps can > often still be installed without much of the desktop. Oh, come on. Both projects do that because of some incredibly silly=20 attitude where everything that's from "the other side" is evil. And=20 while that attitude is not universal. this tread (starting with the tone=20 of Ben's mail) shows clearly many people still have that silly idea=20 which leads to idiotic things like two calculators, two places to=20 configure the language of the apps etcetera. How far have we, Free Software contributors, sunk, if KDE and GNOME apps=20 work better under and integrate better in Windows and Mac OS X then they=20 do ON THE SAME OS running in each other's desktop? I say VERY DEEP. Wake up. THe user doesn't give XXXX about the toolkit their app is=20 written in. And they HATE the confusing situation KDE and GNOME=20 purposely create (yes, it's on purpose and you all know it) by=20 needlessly duplicating things and making it harder to run apps from one=20 in the other. We've all seen countless installations of either KDE or GNOME where apps=20 'from the other side' look and work horrible. If KDE and GNOME can use=20 the native Mac and Windows file dialogs, why can't they use each others=20 dialogs? To name just one silly thing... Imho Ben's mail and the tone there-in was inpolite and uncalled for. And=20 so was the tone many responses. Sigh. > > I'd like to suggest that the GNOME developers consider changing the > > public name of their app to "System Preferences." This matches the > > Mac OS X design and arguably GNOME follows some parts of OS X > > design. Furthermore, it is more in line with Gnome 2's > > System>Preferences and System>Administration. >=20 > That is an absurd proposal. What next, rename gnome-terminal to > 'Commandline Window' because Xfce also ships a 'Terminal' ?! > Generic names don't come with exclusive ownership... Each desktop team should stop picking such generic names. gnome-terminal=20 is fine, so is Konsole. Terminal should probably be renamed.=20 NetworkManager is a braindead name, System Settings implies far more=20 than it accomplishes (it can't handle much 'system settings') so it=20 doesn't seem very smart either. Shaun's proposal is a work-around which would probably be 'good enough'=20 but the root cause is that all DE teams try to create their own little=20 world, going "LALALA I DON'T SEE YOU" about the rest of the world. > And as has already been pointed out, offering the user a meaningless > choice between 'System Settings' and 'System Preferences' is no less > of a failure than having 2 identical items. That I agree with. KDE systemsettings has made a good step, being able=20 to configure some aspects of GNOME apps (make them integrate better in a=20 Plasma workspace). More of that is needed on both sides, OR a nice,=20 generic config tool should be written which handles everything on both=20 sides. Grtz Jos --nextPart4026879.sPuhI0ePj6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAk4vpdoACgkQ+wgQ1AD35ixeUgCg3mxNT01D/NUKGEVTNtDDQTd/ Y/gAoKSTsLBXJ43C2B7cMykZTnv5v+pN =s8K1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4026879.sPuhI0ePj6--