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List:       kde-core-devel
Subject:    Re: Formal complaint concerning the use of the name "System
From:       Giovanni Campagna <scampa.giovanni () gmail ! com>
Date:       2011-07-24 10:55:54
Message-ID: 1311504967.2587.19.camel () giovanni-laptop ! local
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Il giorno dom, 24/07/2011 alle 22.37 +1200, Ben Cooksley ha scritto:
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Giovanni Campagna
> <scampa.giovanni@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Il giorno dom, 24/07/2011 alle 21.00 +1200, Ben Cooksley ha scritto:
> >> 2011/7/24 Emmanuele Bassi <ebassi@gmail.com>:
> >> > hi;
> >> >
> >> > 2011/7/24 Aurélien Gâteau <agateau@kde.org>:
> >> >> Most distributions split KDE packages so if you get a pre-installed
> >> >> computer with Gnome and a few KDE applications installed, KDE System
> >> >> Settings would not be installed.
> >> >>
> >> >> You are only likely to get both System Settings pre-installed if your
> >> >> computer was shipped with both KDE and Gnome desktops. In this
> >> >> situation, I assume you would be provided with some explanation as to
> >> >> what KDE and Gnome are.
> >> >
> >> > installing both Gnome and KDE is not equivalent to running both at the
> >> > same time.
> >> >
> >> > if you managed to get yourself into the scenario where KDE and Gnome
> >> > have been installed at the same time then the KDE system settings
> >> > shell should be marked as NotShowIn=Gnome, and the Gnome one should be
> >> > NotShowIn=KDE. currently, gnome-control-center uses:
> >> >
> >> >  OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Unity;
> >> >
> >> > so a menu rendered under KDE won't show it. now, googling a bit I found this:
> >> >
> >> >  https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/102038/
> >> >
> >> > which is, I guess, what really prompted this thread. so, if the KDE
> >> > system settings shell appears alongside any other system settings
> >> > shell it means that the users are not running KDE, but are running any
> >> > other XDG-recognised desktop.
> >> >
> >> >>> there is no "here and now" — that would be a hack. I hardly think we
> >> >>> have to solve this *quickly*, so we should solve it correctly.
> >> >>
> >> >> Releases are conflicting right *now*, so yes, I think there is a need to
> >> >> solve it quickly, even if the first fix is a short-term one.
> >> >
> >> > the short-term fix is to make the KDE system settings OnlyShowIn=KDE,
> >> > so that users running KDE will not have any issue, and every other
> >> > desktop will correctly not show the KDE system settings shell.
> >>
> >> Wrong. Emmanuele, read my initial email to see why that is not an
> >> acceptable solution under any circumstances.
> >> It has to be shown in some form, regardless of the name, under all
> >> desktop environments.
> >
> > Again, no. There is nothing you want to configure, running under GNOME,
> > in KDE system settings. Qt apps, running under GNOME, should use Gtk+
> > style (already done by Qt), GNOME preferred apps and mime-type
> > associations (already done by shared-mime-info), GNOME networking
> > preferences (already done by NetworkManager and libproxy), GNOME fonts
> > (already done by fontconfig). Everything else (desktop effects, hardware
> > settings, date and time, users...) should not be configurable by KDE
> > system settings, and will likely conflict if changed.
> 
> Wrong, wrong and wrong.
> Phonon backend cannot be configured without System Settings.

And that's a feature, I suppose. As a GNOME user, I want GStreamer at
all times (and as a Fedora user, I can't even install xine).

> Standard keyboard shortcuts for KDE applications cannot be configured
> without System Settings.

Which is a KDE bug. You should use GNOME shortcuts when possible. I
mean, Gtk has emacs and Mac OS modes for keybindings, I doubt Qt hasn't
something similar.

> We don't share Date/Time/Localisation/etc - you need System Settings for that.

You don't have $LANG? or org.freedesktop.Accounts? Both are KDE bugs.

> Theme - we both have our own stores of it - you need System Settings
> again (in case you don't believe me, read ~/.gtk2rc)

It is true that you can change KDE theme without changing the GTK one,
but why would one want that? I want the look and feel of my system to be
consistent, even when different apps or toolkits are used, and I want
one place to configure the theme.
(or none, if I'm using GNOME3 </rant>)

> KDE Wallet has some of it's configuration stored in System Settings
> too - and it is used by KDE applications even outside KDE for secure
> password storage.

KDE apps under GNOME should use gnome-keyring, not kwallet: that's what
org.freedesktop.Secrets is for.

Giovanni


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