From kde-core-devel  Tue Aug 18 06:19:56 2009
From: Peter Penz <peter.penz () gmx ! at>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:19:56 +0000
To: kde-core-devel
Subject: Re: Review Request: Add global option to turn off "natural sorting"
Message-Id: <200908180819.56190.peter.penz () gmx ! at>
X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-core-devel&m=125057648527647

On Tuesday, 18. August 2009 01:48:27 Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> (FYI, you don't need to CC me on this list...)
>
> Peter Penz wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 18. August 2009 00:20:47 Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> >> While you're looking at this, any chance of fixing natural sorting where
> >> it is currently broken?
> >> Specifically, sorting of hexadecimal or other
> >> base-greater-than-10 numbers? (I have at least one directory of stuff
> >> that is base-36 numbering, that sorts very wrongly. Actually, this makes
> >> something of an argument for per-directory options...)
> >
> > Natural sorting is not "broken" in this case. There is no way for the
> > compare function to know the semantics of a string: Should F1.jpg be
> > handled as a hexadezimal value or not?
>
> I thought of that, which is why I mentioned it needing to be
> per-directory. Nevertheless, I hate to turn off natural sorting
> globally, but it's really hard to find the right file in a list like:
>
> 5GH67I
> 6IF732
> 6KW84W
> 7FDM86
> 8CFUQR
> 10AH2MF
> 62DH13
> 74UZGI
> EW5YP
> U4H3WM
>
> That's clearly wrong... the order should be:
>
> EW5YP
> 5GH67I
> 62DH13
> 6IF732
> 6KW84W
> 74UZGI
> 7FDM86
> 8CFUQR
> U4H3WM
> 10AH2MF

Yes, I understand this usecase (has been mentioned on 
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=179399 already).

> (Notice that C sorting is still "wrong" here!)
>
> Hmm... okay, I guess this is almost impossible to solve without user
> input. But it's really, REALLY freakin' annoying in file dialogs; the
> list is all but useless in such cases.
>
> In the example above, C sorting would be okay since I usually know the
> name of what I am looking for, so I can look for "1A..." and it is near
> everything else starting with '1'. (But this is /exactly/ why natural
> sorting is seriously fsck'd here; files starting with '1' end up all
> over the place.)
>
> > I'm really against a per-directory option, as this hexadezimal-example is
> > a corner case for a small group of users which does not justify a user
> > visible UI option "[x] Natural Compare" inside a top-level-menu IMO.
>
> I'd be fine with a hidden option... from your argument, the people that
> would need it are most likely to be comfortable dealing with such an
> option.

But in your case "hidden option" would mean that you want adjust your 
".directory" file manually. Or do I missunderstand you? This would not work 
with the file dialog, as it ignores the .directory files...

If I don't miss a thing, the problem in the file-dialog can only be solved by:
- a global option (= my suggestion in the reviewboard)
- a user visible option "[x] Natural Sorting" in the configuration menu

I'd be interested into more details of your usecase:

- How often do you need to select a file in Dolphin or the file-dialog that is 
named in hexadezimal way?

- Is the number of named hexadecimal files really so large that you lose a lot 
of time in your daily workflow? Taking the file dialog as example: If you'd 
have a user visible configuration "[x] Natural Sorting" you'd need to disable 
this setting each time you enter such a directory and would need to enable it 
again each time before you leave it :-(

- Wouldn't it be faster anyhow that you use the filter functionality (Strg+I) 
from Dolphin or the filename-combo in the file-dialog?

Best regards,
Peter