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List: kde-core-devel
Subject: Re: Which styles to keep?
From: "Jos Poortvliet" <jos () mijnkamer ! nl>
Date: 2007-08-16 21:01:10
Message-ID: 5c77e14b0708161401j23837acdi50c484cdd2fcda3 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Imho, the analogy's and the reactions on them are going a bit into the
direction of "let's fight". That's not to blame on anyone (just the nature
of email) but I just think it would be wise to follow Aaron here and end the
discussion.
Or we just organize a cagefight for next aKademy. Then at least the other
dev's can enjoy it too :D
On 8/16/07, Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> wrote:
>
> On čt 16. srpna 2007, Guillaume Laurent wrote:
> > On Aug 16, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > I propose to stop this discussion, and do what we always do: let
> > > those who code, decide.
> >
> > On a usabilitity/aesthetics question ? Are you mad ?
> >
> > On the contrary I'd advocate that anyone using KDE for development be
> > explicitly forbidden to have any say on the design and choice of
> > artwork (and usability, while I'm at it).
>
> Sorry, but this is nonsense. Not the last paragraph[*], but the one
> before.
> This is not about aesthetics or even usability, this is about more options
> in
> a config dialog that more or less only people caring about those more
> options
> are going to see. All those "average user" arguments are irrelevant, since
> that kind of users is not very likely to ever see that dialog, let alone
> try
> to switch the styles.
>
> [*] Well, actually, the last paragraph is rubbish too
> - funnily enough, it excludes even some artists, say, style developers
> - it doesn't take a great actor to recognize a bad one - I may not be able
> to
> design a single thing that'd look good and I definitely don't insist that
> I
> have any big decisive say on artwork, but I can still see that e.g. Oxygen
> in
> its current form (ok, ok, which is going to change according to this
> thread,
> but anyway) has pretty bad usability with its poorly visible widgets
> - I'd also doubt that just the ability to paint icons (or who's going to
> be
> the non-developers - doc writers, translators?) is an automatic guarantee
> that the person is good to judge usability or even aesthetics. In general
> probably yes, but just have a look at your favourite insane artist style
> to
> see what an artist may be capable of. We also don't ignore artists when
> they
> write bugreports.
>
> But none of that matters in this discussion. This discussion is about what
> choices should be in "kcmshell style". And I say that those go as far
> as "kcmshell style" go there to get a choice.
>
> --
> Lubos Lunak
> KDE developer
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org
> Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 972
> 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951
> Czech Republic http//www.suse.cz
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
Imho, the analogy's and the reactions on them are going a bit into the direction \
of "let's fight". That's not to blame on anyone (just the nature of \
email) but I just think it would be wise to follow Aaron here and end the discussion. \
<br><br>Or we just organize a cagefight for next aKademy. Then at least the other \
dev's can enjoy it too :D<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/16/07, <b \
class="gmail_sendername">Lubos Lunak</b> <<a href="mailto:l.lunak@suse.cz"> \
l.lunak@suse.cz</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
padding-left: 1ex;">On čt 16. srpna 2007, Guillaume Laurent wrote:<br>> On Aug \
16, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote: <br>> > I propose to stop this \
discussion, and do what we always do: let<br>> > those who code, \
decide.<br>><br>> On a usabilitity/aesthetics question ? Are you mad \
?<br>><br>> On the contrary I'd advocate that anyone using KDE for \
development be <br>> explicitly forbidden to have any say on the design and choice \
of<br>> artwork (and usability, while I'm at it).<br><br> Sorry, but this is \
nonsense. Not the last paragraph[*], but the one before.<br>This is not about \
aesthetics or even usability, this is about more options in <br>a config dialog that \
more or less only people caring about those more options<br>are going to see. All \
those "average user" arguments are irrelevant, since<br>that kind of users \
is not very likely to ever see that dialog, let alone try <br>to switch the \
styles.<br><br>[*] Well, actually, the last paragraph is rubbish too<br>- funnily \
enough, it excludes even some artists, say, style developers<br>- it doesn't take \
a great actor to recognize a bad one - I may not be able to <br>design a single thing \
that'd look good and I definitely don't insist that I<br>have any big \
decisive say on artwork, but I can still see that e.g. Oxygen in<br>its current form \
(ok, ok, which is going to change according to this thread, <br>but anyway) has \
pretty bad usability with its poorly visible widgets<br>- I'd also doubt that \
just the ability to paint icons (or who's going to be<br>the non-developers - doc \
writers, translators?) is an automatic guarantee <br>that the person is good to judge \
usability or even aesthetics. In general<br>probably yes, but just have a look at \
your favourite insane artist style to<br>see what an artist may be capable of. We \
also don't ignore artists when they <br>write bugreports.<br><br> But none of \
that matters in this discussion. This discussion is about what<br>choices should be \
in "kcmshell style". And I say that those go as far<br>as "kcmshell \
style" go there to get a choice. <br><br>--<br>Lubos Lunak<br>KDE \
developer<br>--------------------------------------------------------------<br>SUSE \
LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: <a \
href="mailto:l.lunak@suse.cz">l.lunak@suse.cz</a> , <a href="mailto:l.lunak@kde.org"> \
l.lunak@kde.org</a><br>Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 972<br>190 00 \
Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951<br>Czech \
Republic \
http//www.suse.cz<br></blockquote></div><br>
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