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On Thursday 6 July 2006 21:02, Andriy Rysin wrote:
> Thomas Zander wrote:
> > On Thursday 6 July 2006 15:55, Andriy Rysin wrote:
> >> There's one very often requested feature for keyboard layout
> >> switcher - to be able to use modifier-only shortcut for switching
> >> layouts. E.g. Alt+Shift or Ctrl+Shift like it is on Windows.
> >
> > Doing so will disable a _lot_ of potential shortcuts to be used by
> > others. That and the fact that its really bad usability to stray from
> > the rule that a 'normal' key should always be included in the
> > shortcut.
> >
> > See for a related issue: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1569
>
> 1) it's not a single key shortcut, so it's not completely applicable to
> the related issue you've posted above - I'd agree that one key shortcut
> is bad/dangerous but two modifier keys don't have problems described in
> the link

I described that in the part above. Having a 'normal' key in there is the=20
rule. The modifiers are to get more combinations. Using only the=20
modifiers (even if its two instead of one) breaks the rule and therefor=20
breaks consistency.  Breaking consistency means users will sometimes see=20
unexpected results and stop trusting the system.
Everything breaks down from that point on.
This is why usability people hammer so much on consistency.
Picture a sweaty guy on stage yelling 'Consistency' for 10 minutes :)

> 2) catching e.g. Ctrl+Shift not gonna affect _any_ derivative
> shortcuts, as it'll be activated only if you press and RELEASE
> ctrl+shift, if you press ctrl+shift+a it'll go through to corresponding
> handler
Sounds confusing for people that use sticky keys.

> 3) thousands (millions?) people use those combinations on windows and
> even X (check xkb options for switching groups) and they don't
> complain, instead I see people complain about kxkb

Have you ever seen people complain about inconsistency? Most people blame=20
themselves for being stupid users.  Reading 'The inmates are running the=20
asylum' would be a good thing at this time ;)

> 4) the only problem with two modifiers is if you were thinking pressing
> e.g. ctrl+shift+a and then changed your mind before pressing 3d key - I
> occasionly get into that situation - in this case I have to press it
> again to switch back to my original layout - but this is not special -
> I occasionly get into similar situation by holding Shift for 8 secs
> thinking :)

So, basically you are saying that since something else is broken its OK to=
=20
add another broken thing? I Hope not!
The 'holding shift' was something else that the usability team convinced=20
KDE to disable by default. The other part of your reply is very true; it=20
will go wrong. Think about _why_ in light of my points above.
Now imagine this happening to someone who has no idea what just happened,=20
and will probably be lost for quite some time. Most likely rebooting, I=20
just hope the setting is not persistent ;-)

> 5) now the main agrument for things like Ctrl+Shift is convinience
=2E..
> Now imaging that you used to do that with two adjucent fingers and now
> you have to use Ctrl+Alt+K taking two hands(!!!).
I feel their pain; really. But this is a worse default for a lot of=20
reasons. I mean; even ctrl-alt-x is better for you.
There are a lot of possible combinations between a 2-hands shortcut and a=20
modifier-only combination.

I suggest you come up with one that works for you the people you share=20
this problem with. Please note that the Ctrl-Alt-K is also something that=20
can be changed by you, so please experiment and let your friends=20
experiment. And let us know what works best.
=2D-=20
Thomas Zander

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