From kde-core-devel Wed Apr 19 10:47:31 2006 From: Thiago Macieira Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:47:31 +0000 To: kde-core-devel Subject: Re: Proposal: New module "kdecore" Message-Id: <200604191247.46760.thiago () kde ! org> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-core-devel&m=114544370417179 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--nextPart1310689.foazJ1TMMT" --nextPart1310689.foazJ1TMMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline David Faure wrote: >> > - apps: other apps, needed by users but not by other apps >> >> How about moving these out of kdebase? > >And where? I don't see the point; as I said it's only confusion. I don't know. Which applications are these? >> Also, where is Konqueror? I would consider it part of Workspace, >> because no environment is full without a file manager. On the other >> hand, even if I were in TWM, I'd like to use Konqueror... > >Konqueror is -definitely- not part of workspace. Workspace =3D=3D "X11 > only". The logic is not "kde is not full without xyz"; that's the logic > for kdebase itself, and that's why I don't think we should "move those > apps out of kdebase". Makes sense. Let me see if I understood correctly: 1) A complete KDE environment should run and be usable with just kdelibs += =20 kdebase, as it is right now.=20 2) Running KDE applications outside KDE requires kdelibs +=20 kdebase-coreapps 3) Compiling KDE applications requires kdelibs only =46or the sake of the argument, let me propose a complete radical approach: a) Move kdebase-corepps to kdelibs b) Move the non-central KDE libraries to kdeapplibs or whatever other=20 name. This would include the PIM libraries Cornelius proposed in the=20 start of this thread, as well as convenience libraries like kdnssd,=20 kwallet, kspell2/sonnet, kutils, knewstuff. We'd end up with: 1) A complete KDE environment should run and be usable with kdelibs +=20 kdebase. 2) Running KDE applications outside KDE requires just kdelibs. 3) Compiling KDE applications always requires kdelibs, but also optionally= =20 kdeapplibs, depending on which application it is. This adds some other constraints, like: can any kdebase application depend= =20 on kdeapplibs? We also get the question more often whether a=20 class/library should be moved upstream from the application to the app=20 library to the core library... >> >coreapps would contain >> > - drkonqi >> >> drkonqi is almost kdelibs... > >That's the point. Everything that I listed in coreapps is "the stuff > that is needed alongside kdelibs although it's not libs". The runtime > dependencies of kde apps, as opposed to compile-time dependencies. Then kdeinit moves out of kdelibs into kdebase-coreapps? The way I see it, dependencies are dependencies, no matter if run-time or=20 compile-time, so these apps should be in kdelibs. >> > - kioslaves (I know they're not really apps, but let's not name the >> > directory "core") kio_http and kio_ftp are in kdelibs, a couple of other important ones are=20 in kdebase. We should merge, I think. >> > - kdesu >> > - kdebugdialog? maybe this one belongs in kdesdk? >> >> Yes. Applications don't need to run kdebugdialog. Normal users will >> never know about it either. > >Yes; OTOH telling a user "install all of kdesdk just to tell me the > debug output from area 1245" seems a bit overkill (and might raise the > bar for meaningful debug output logs). 1) Why are debug areas shipped disabled? 2) Applications are shipped with debugging disabled, so installing=20 kdebugdialog may be futile. Then again, if my second assumption is wrong, #1 makes sense... >> > - kreadconfig, kdialog, kstart (all potentially needed by scripts) >> > - khelpcenter >> > - kcontrol? or only kcmshell? >> >> kcmshell, probably, with kcontrol being part of workspace. > >I think that running kcontrol makes sense in gnome, windows, and Mac OSX >as well. So IMHO it belongs to apps. kcontrol has to be reorganised along with the workspace - coreapps - apps=20 reorganisation. Bear with me here: what in the KDE Control Center has to be configured in=20 GNOME, Windows and MacOS X? =2D Appearance & Themes Partially: the inside-the-window stuff like widget styles, colours,=20 icons has to be configured; the out-of-the-window stuff like window=20 decorations, splash screen, background, screensaver cannot. Exception: theme manager spans the two areas. =2D Desktop: No: purely KDE Workspace. =2D Internet & Network: Partially, as it stands. It configures the web browser -- no, it=20 configures Konqueror. It configures several network-related applications=20 (krdc, kdnssd, kmldonkey, lisa) as well as the system (wireless) and=20 KDE-wide settings (proxy, connection settings). =2D KDE Components: Partially: it configures kresources (KDE-wide), Konqueror, MIME types=20 and file associations (Workspace once we use the XDG database), Session=20 (Workspace), Components (Workspace if we use XDG/Portland), kded=20 (KDE-wide) and the spellchecker (KDE-wide) =2D Peripherals: No: purely KDE Workspace. =2D Power Control: No: purely KDE Workspace. =2D Regional & Accessibility: Partial: Accessibility and Keyboard Layout are Workspace. The rest is=20 global (khotkeys, default and global shortcuts). Exception: Country &=20 Language. =2D Security & Privacy: Partial: Password & User Account are KDE Workspace; the rest is KDE-wide= =20 (KSSL, KWallet and cleanups). =2D Sound & Multimedia: Can't say. That depends on what configurations Phonon and the=20 notification subsystem come up with. Also note that System Notifications=20 allows you to change the notifications for any app. =2D System Administration: By definition, Workspace, except for the kdm configuration (because kdm=20 is not part of the Workspace). =2D-=20 Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org thiago.macieira (AT) trolltech.com Trolltech AS GPG: 0x6EF45358 | Sandakerveien 116, E067 918B B660 DBD1 105C | NO-0402 966C 33F5 F005 6EF4 5358 | Oslo, Norway --nextPart1310689.foazJ1TMMT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBERhVSM/XwBW70U1gRAq1XAKCkeC5oqd96mmwI9pXjBIdEPUsYBACdHeMD XTCaQSZoM5ZslgCoRtwHDGg= =6eB+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1310689.foazJ1TMMT--