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List:       kde-core-devel
Subject:    Re: Removing icons from KDE 4 Menus
From:       seele () obso1337 ! org
Date:       2005-09-03 15:50:43
Message-ID: 4323.150.214.57.98.1125762643.squirrel () webmail ! halcyonhosting ! net
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Greetings from planet usability:

it seems as if this decision is being determined based on what the
developers would prefer and not what our target user base is.

my 2$USD cents:

icons in the menu are not a bad thing.  they facilitate faster locating of
key items with icons which are familiar.  i see the problem with not
having ALL the items with icons or TOO many icons, but they do more help
than good.

you as developers may not see the use of icons or may even be annoyed by
them because you have a different use model for the environment than the
average user.  images, graphics, colors, anythign you want to call fluff,
they all add the the experience.  the icons in the menus play an assitive
role and they help users quickly find certain items.

in a few threads i saw the mentioning of removing icons from toolbars.  i
dont know if it was a mix up of terms, but toolbars are those bars
underneath the menubar and they consist of mostly icons.  no icons, no
toolbars.

i have two suggestions:

1) perhaps we can evaluate certain menu items and determine if
all/none/some of the selections should have icons.  for example, items
such as save, print, and quit are frequently used and have very
distinguishable icons.  bookmark items dont really have any draw because
theyre just a bunch of stars strikingly similar.

perhaps we dont need ALL the items to have icons (since not all of the
items have icons available anyway) and should only include frequently used
icons which are universably recognizable.

2) user test it.

peace out,

Celeste


> On Saturday 03 September 2005 13:59, Andras Mantia wrote:
>> On Saturday 03 September 2005 15:13, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
>> > * Andras Mantia <amantia@kde.org> [Sep 03. 2005 13:51]:
>> > > On Saturday 03 September 2005 15:07, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
>> > > > * Andras Mantia <amantia@kde.org> [Sep 02. 2005 21:46]:
>> > > > > On Friday 02 September 2005 22:34, Nicolas Goutte wrote:
>> > > > > > So I suppose that the artists want to avoid the manual
>> > > > > > correction.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I'm sorry, but this is not a real argument. If they don't want
>> > > > > to do, we cannot force them, but just because it requires some
>> > > > > work, we should not remove it.As David and I said before: they
>> > > > > really help.
>> > > >
>> > > > Do you have any statistics to support this or is this just an
>> > > > opinion?
>> > >
>> > > Statistics about what? That it helps? No research, but just look at
>> > > the answers. Many share the same opinion.
>> >
>> > Well, the opinions of a few developers hardly reflects the opinions
>> > of all of our user-base, or?
>
>>
>> Yeah, but do you have a research in the user base? And aren't developers
>> users? What would you expect, that everybody steps up that "I like the
>> icons" from those who are subscribed in order to convince you that this
>> is useful?
>
> in case this helps, I'll add my "I like the icons" ;)
>
> Anyway, in my experience with other users, it's true they don't read
> texts,
> dialogs, popups, menus or anything. But they do recognise icons properly.
> I'm
> sure you all (even those willing to remove icons) have had experiences
> like
> this?
>
> Icons definetely help making your actions faster. And I'd say lots of
> times
> those menus without icon go rather unnoticed (and thus unused) by the
> users,
> which is a shame.
>
> My 2€cents
>
> 	Unai
>


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