From kde-core-devel  Thu Aug 26 11:17:46 2004
From: Aaron Seigo <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:17:46 +0000
To: kde-core-devel
Subject: Re: KDE Doc: What mailinglist to use
Message-Id: <200408261317.46193.aseigo () kde ! org>
X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-core-devel&m=109351929822800

On Thursday 26 August 2004 05:51, Frans Englich wrote:
> Is it suitable to start kde-guidelines, and if not, what should be used
> instead?

yes, it is suitable. there is much discussion that needs to occur prior to 
bringing final drafts to the whole group (which includes all three sets of 
guidelines) that are of little to no interest to the rest. it also gives us a 
canonical place to track final drafts outside of the general noise.

> existing list, but rather that than a dry river later on. Remember
> kde-usability-devel.

what happened with kde-usability-devel is nothing like what you are implying 
here. it never took off because it didn't have the necessary processes set 
down nor did it yet have solid developer interaction (e.g. the kdepim 
usability project) ... i actually expect k-u-d to get more use now than in 
the past.

> * Better exposure and larger idea flow. With a separate list, only those
> who are
> "hardcore writers" will be on the list, and this typical knowledge net
> caused by different people who knows what goes on in all corners, and
> what's relevant, is lost. All the expertise the people on the current lists
> have, is missed.

i think you have missed the idea: work leading up to final drafts will happen 
on the existing lists with kde-guidelines being a place for the maintainers 
to compare notes, ensure there aren't cross-guideline conflicts in concepts, 
accept patches for grammar/spelling/etc from those not involved in the larger 
topics, etc... but most of the discussion will occur on kde-accessability, 
kde-artists and kde-usability-devel...

> * Free publicity and integration. 

non-issue ...

> * More relevant content. People don't want to know about Guidelines in
> general, they want to participate in guidelines related to artwork,
> accessibility, or usability.

and that is why we are going to have the pre-final draft conversations ON THE 
APPROPRIATE LISTS. i don't know how many times i'll need to repeat this, but 
i'll keep repeating until people grok it. so those interested in each aspect 
of the guidelines can discuss the parts they are most interested in. but 
there are cross guideline issues, e.g. some usability issues may conflict 
with accessability concerns, so we need some mechanism for cross-talk.

> Accessibility is a subset of usability(taking a certain user group in
> consideration) and artwork is also a subset of usability(focuses on a
> certain technical part, not widgets, but pictures and colors): 

this is completely, categorically and absolutely incorrect.

there are areas of cross-over between the three, which is why we are working 
together when writing our guidelines, but they are each distinct and separate 
concepts.

> The central 
> subject of all this is usability, and hence kde-usability is suitable as a
> main list. 

since your premise is wrong, this conclusion is also completely askew.

> kde-usability doesn't need ignorance 

nobody said we are going to ignore it. please refrain from seeing problems 
where there are none.

-- 
Aaron Seigo, currently in Ludwigsburg
KDE World Conference 2004: aKademy