On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 11:38:28 at 11:38:28AM -0400, George Staikos (staikos@kde.org) wrote:
> > First of all, medium/big corporations buy only products or turn key
> > solutions, not processes. That's what they want to hear, whatever it
> > means.
> 
>   That is the fallacy.  Just because they do it all the time doesn't mean it's 
> right.  See: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030814.html

I didn't say it is right. I said that this is the way IT business is
done in those circle, and that if you wait without compromises for
them to realise it you'll get fairly old.

> I have worked for businesses that let you install whatever system
> you wanted on your computer as long as the job was done
> efficiently. All of those businesses were eventually bought out for
> quite a bit of money.

I know that this happens, but I said medium/big referring to number of
employees and remote offices, say from 1000 people upwards, not to the
money they make. The more an organization is big, the more
standardized its IT must be to avoid paralysis. What you said confirms
that freedom and choice is good, possible and done by some companies,
not by the real big corporations. You are comparing apples (your work
experience) to oranges (the companies like the one I'm in, to which
that report is geared): they probably just didn't write that report
for the kind of employers you had.
 
>   Sorry this contradicts what the article just said.  They explicitly stated 
> that they want Gnome on the desktop.  They then went on to say that they 
> wanted Ximian (R) Desktop 2 on their desktop.  Which one is it?

Frankly, I don't know, I didn't read it. I only stepped in to tell you
that in *general* the corporate world (and again by corporate I mean
the big leagues) thinks as I explained, so your kind of arguments will
be ignored in the best case. I was not defending that article, sorry
for the misunderstanding.
 
> > Just don't be surprised if it never happens, because, again, your
> > arguments, as valid as they are, simply do not apply to corporate IT.
> 
>    Not yet, but the idea of Linux doesn't apply to corporate IT yet either.  I 
> spent hours in workshops at OLS 3 weeks ago discussing just this issue with 
> industry leaders from government and big Linux corporations.

Sorry, I don't understand the paragraph above. May you elaborate on
this?

> 
> > *IF* you or KDE care about that world (and I'm not saying you should)
> > you have to acknowledge the way they think, and come to terms with
> > that, not wait till they bend over backwards to make freedom, choice
> > etc... enter their DNA.
> 
> We don't have that choice. KDE doesn't have a marketing team, paid
> developers who will fix bugs and add features on demand, 24/7 phone
> support,

OK: I said from the beginning that was not pretending you or KDE to
change your ways. I simply pointed out that big corporations and
public administrations won't even pretend to consider solutions
without all the characteristics above, and that they also have some
valid and objective reasons, in that world, to do so. I'm old enough
to know that they will give the contract to whoever pays the best
cocktail or hotel room, but only among candidates fitting that
profile.

Ciao,
	Marco Fioretti

-- 
Marco Fioretti                 m.fioretti, at the server inwind.it
Red Hat for low memory         http://www.rule-project.org/en/

Go ahead, capitalize the T on technology, deify it if it will make you
feel less responsible -- but it puts you in with the neutered,
brother, in with the eunuchs keeping the harem of our stolen Earth for
the numb and joyless hardons of human sultans, human elite with no
right at all to be where they are --
			       Thomas Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_