/me looks incredulous at most of the people around him. why are people doing c++ via c and gnome vs kde conversations? there is no way on earth that i'd be part of the kde devel team if not for the nice qt api's. no chance will i be ever be coding c++/stl, glib on the other hand actually has a sane enough api size. therefore, (in my eyes) glib *is* the lowest common denominator. there is no other choice. you seriously believe that gnome could use c++/qt as its base?, sure, if a subset of qt was released by trolltech then maybe this would be possible. but currently its just completely unreasonable. mvg, Alex