Am Dienstag, 27. August 2002 18:17 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
> On Tuesday 27 August 2002 14:14, Roland Seuhs wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday 27 August 2002 12:26, Lubos Lunak wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, it's handled by KWin. KWin asks X to redirect window mapping t=
o
> > > KWin, and before the window is actually shown, KWin applies geometr=
y,
> > > etc. saved from the session. And no, your application cannot do the
> > > same, it'd have to ask KWin to do it (e.g. now placing windows of n=
ewly
> > > started app on the desktop they were started on is handled this way=
 -
> > > but I guess it refuses to use non-existing virtual desktop).
> >
> > I don't understand, why can't my app tell KWin?
>
>  Since right now there's no such support for it in KWin.=20

Does KWin only accept these commands during start-up?

If ksmserver can issue these commands, every app should be able to, no?

>  I'd say it's actually the system (kernel etc.) itself that should hand=
le
> it (and that's why we have kdeinit and other hacks, right? :-/ ).

Well, the kernel simply can't handle it.
Most apps load configuration files on startup, they load icons, pictures,=
 etc.
I don't see any other way of caching all that.

> > If I can somehow overcome the focus-problem, I think this app will ma=
ke
> > KDE usable for many users which find KDE currently too slow. A KDE/Li=
nux
> > system caches data on so many levels (CPU, disk-cache in RAM, disk-ca=
che
> > on HDD) why not cache whole apps to eliminate start-up time once and =
for
> > all? Also, my app doesn't interfere with any other things in KDE.
>
>  Well, I personally don't like these details:
> - this hidden app(s) will most probably get session managed just like
> others, so it will make KDE startup time even longer (which is for many
> people actually the reason they say KDE is slow).

Come on, this is really a non-issue. A smart implementation (for example =
a simple "sleep(120)" before you start loading the apps and "sleep(5)" in=
 between starting the apps) will not get noticed. (I know sleep() is not =
pretty, but who cares?)
You could also check if there is enough RAM available to decide wether to=
 cache an app or not.

BTW, I think ksmserver should try to start one app after another and not =
all simultaneously. My machine crawls during startup.

> - the hidden app may eat some CPU time (not that much though I guess)

I agree 100% that you shouldn't use ktop with it.

> - it's not going to work reliably for all apps (they may e.g. popup a m=
odal
> dialog sometimes, which would look strange since the app is not "runnin=
g")

If you can somehow get all window-ids for an app, this can be made to wor=
k.
Otherwise just don't use it with that app.

> - technically it's probably better to avoid hacks like 'hidden desktop =
16',
> and hide the window completely instead

Maybe. But also a lot more complicated if I'm not completely wrong.

> - this all will be IMHO just one big ugly hack

Well, I really don't want to argue that because yes it probably is. Howev=
er unlike many other hacks it is totally unrelated to the main project, s=
o it won't be a problem for anybody and won't have any adverse effects on=
 KDE's codebase. No developer will have to go through the pain to underst=
and this hack.
It's just that in some cases it will be useful, ugly hack be damned. It d=
oesn't have any adverse effects to the codebase and you freely choose whi=
ch apps start normally and which using the tool.

>  Hmm, ok. Looks like nothing really preventing you from doing it :).

If I can't get around the focus-issue, it is preventing me from doing it =
:-(

> For
> the focus problem, you can for now probably use doNotManage() from KWin=
's
> DCOP interface, the argument is regexp for window title, first matching
> window won't be shown. In case your utility shows to be really useful,
> there can be written something better in KWin than this ugly (yes, you
> guessed it) hack doNotManage().

When the window already has a name, the focus is already stolen, so I don=
't see how that can possibly work.

Roland

--=20
Facts do not cease to exist when they are ignored.