From kde-core-devel Wed Jan 02 22:35:21 2002 From: Kurt Pfeifle Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:35:21 +0000 To: kde-core-devel Subject: Print Manager should not be moved to kcontrol "Peripherals"! X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-core-devel&m=101005147122194 Hi, I am not a developer, but doing a lot of work related to printing. Not th= e private printing at home, but enterprise level printing in large print sh= ops or office workgroups. I have been documenting the new KDEPrint module recently, writing the KDE= Print = Handbook and contributing to the http://printing.kde.org/ website. = IMHO it is a bad move for the KDEPrint related kcontrol module to be take= n to "Peripherals". (This is not only because it requires me to change things = and screenshots for the new documentation, which time could have been used to= document *new* things and fill existing gaps.) I was just about to start with the writing the new KDEPrint-3.0 Handbook.= Unfortunately, I missed the discussion that has taken place on your list = about it (I'm not subscribed) and discovered the change only after I succeeded = with the = CVS compilation (not at all easy for me, but essential to start writing t= he docu). To put the printing manager into peripherals might seem logical to someon= e = who only has a printer connected via /dev/lp0 at his disposal. But printi= ng has a lot more than that to cover.... I have read the argument "it is more easy to find in peripherals as users= = expect it to find it there". Well I didn't look for it there until I syst= ematically scanned the whole visible tree. A lot of existing KDE users will suffer t= he same confusion when they use KDE3 the first time. And even converts from the M= S = Windows OS will not expect print administration amongst "peripherals". You look it up yourself, if you want to know... When I first realized the change, I thought it to have been done in error= , or by someone who had shifted it for the pure sake of "changing". Now tha= t I = know, there was even a short discussion on your list, I still feel strong= about it. I have read the argument "it is psychologically easier for users to touch= it if we don't call it a 'system' task." Well, I won't really comment a lot = on this = argument. But a user will be in trouble if she just clicks around in the = printer manager without knowing what to do, even if you put it in "peripherals". = Moving the module doesn't ease the task one iota. Printing is not at all comparable to configuring a mouse or a keyboard (d= ifficult as this might be in cases). And there is a reason, why you traditionally needed root access to configure printers and printing in Unix. There are = statistics that point out: the effort for administrators to handle networ= k = printing (including Windows network printing, which is in my experience *= not* = a lot easier to administer...) in their day-to-day tasks consumes up to 6= 6% of = their time (the most moderate statistic I know of, speaks of 25%). Printing and network printing is (and remains) one of the most complicate= d tasks for everyone dealing with day-to-day IT business. (Lots of differen= t hardware, lots of different protocols, lots of printer languages, page = description languages, implementations, conversion software, filters ...n= o one single standard involved agreed ba everybody. To get a document as di= splayed on screen to be read on paper involves a lot of error-prone steps and a l= ot of correctly configured components, ahrdware and software.) The work of Michael Goffioul for "making KDE/Unix ready for the desktop" = is = in my opinion still very much underestimated -- even inside the KDE core = developer group. This is likely "the natural thing" of Open Source or Fre= e Software developement, because the developers do normally "scratch were t= hey feel = itches" -- and their printing problems (my guess) are only related to pri= nting on small parallel or USB attached printers. They probably can't imagine a kcontrol module responsble for 50 or moer printers and more than 1000 users... To me, "printing from the desktop" starts, true, at the "desktop at home"= at the private users' box, but it stretches to the enterprise desktop (probably only running "Thin Clients") with a network of 1000s of users. And here it is were we talk "business"! You might not know (but I tell you now as much as I can), that there are = some big institutions out there, with a lot of financial power, who are still = heavily using OS/2 on their desktops, running some proprietary ERP (lets = call it so, even if it is banking or insurance...;-) software. They will still= = do so for the next 12 or more months. But they have their task forces alr= eady = investigating what would be the replacement for OS/2: believe me, Windows= 2000 and Windows XP are not the only candidates. (Maybe I am not telling you any news here, but some of you might have forgotten about it...) And I kn= ow too: those evaluation teams are also considering KDE as a platform for th= eir new desktops and Qt for the porting of their programs (if they are not wr= itten = from scratch). For users from that corner, decent printing and related administrative ta= sks is a mission critical administrator as well as day-to-day desktop user is= sue. They will never compare it (for lack of alternative) to a mouse or a keyb= oard. These two normally "just work" (true there are now issue with the Euro- Character, and there is a bit of complication to get it from generating a= keycode by hitting a key to displaying a certain letter on screen -- but do you hear as many cries for help in the newsnet about it as about = printing?). = They are testing CUPS right now to see if it fits their needs (they need TLS/SSL-encryption for their printjobs crossing the inter- or intra-nets and other features). And they were very pleased and impressed to see what= KDEPrint as a CUPS frontend is already now giving to them, when they were= lurking at the KDE booths at "Systems" in Munich and "Linux World Expo" i= n Frankfurt! KDEPrint is an essential feature for making "Linux ready for the desktop"= (and in some environments even more important than KOffice, probably). An= d thanks to Michael (and his pre-decessors and supporters in the developmen= t) it is already *ready* for the desktop, due to its nearly full-scale CUPS support. To move printing management from "system" to peripherals doesn't sound lo= gical to people from an enterprise background; it doesn't make it easier for = the user to find it; it doesn't make it easier for a user to *use* it; and it doesn't reflect the importance of printing for KDEs success on the desktop. So if there should be a move at all: t h e o n l y p l a c e o u t s = i d e = o f t h e " S y s t e m " b r a n c h i s a t t h e t o p l e v e= l ! = (Yes, I regard "Printing" to be of the same importance as "Sound" and "Po= wer = Control" for enterprise level desktop computing...) [Maybe the home user = will = disagree with my last sentence, and I understand that ;-) ] Printing at the top level of kcontrol would also make it possible to stru= cture the different submodules of KDEPrint more: printing manager, add-printer-= wizard, kprinter, kjobviewer etc. To make "Printing" visible on the top level of kcontrol would reflect all= the needs that came to the fore so far: easier finding and accessing the modu= le, encouraging people who are horrified from touching "System" (I am not so = sure if I wouldn't prefer to keep them away from printing too ;-), reflecting the importance of KDEPrint for the system, etc. But don't put it at the top level without Michael Goffiouls acknowledgmen= t beforehand; he told me he'd need to do some code changes for this (even a= s he likes the idea, this would take some time). Thanks for reading and considering, Kurt -- = +------------------------------------------------------------------------= --+ | .--. CUPS + ESP PrintPro:= | | |o_o | ********************= | | ~ |:_/ | Unix/Linux Printing made fun and easy= | | =B0 =B0 // \ \ http://www.danka.de/printpro/faq.= html | | /V\ (| | ) .~. Kurt Pfeifle, Danka Deutschland GmbH= | | // \\ /'\_ _/`\ /V\ Tel.: +49-172-715.7017 = | | /( )\ \___)=3D(___ )/( )\ mailto:kpfeifle@danka.de = | | ^`~'^ ^^~^^ = | | Network Printing Services: Consulting+Training+Workshops+Troubleshootin= g | +------------------------------------------------------------------------= --+