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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Post-MegaRelease projects
From: Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel () yandex ! ru>
Date: 2024-02-24 7:37:20
Message-ID: 1cecabfc73d5cb4f96c9e4c66430ca2d021b6d22.camel () yandex ! ru
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On Sat, 2024-02-24 at 16:31 +1300, Ben Cooksley wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 11:12 PM Sune Vuorela <nospam@vuorela.dk>
> wrote:
> > On 2024-02-22, Nate Graham <nate@kde.org> wrote:
> > > I've started pondering post-megarelease projects. We've spent so
> > long on
> > > porting and bugfixing that I think it might be useful to shift
> > gears to
> > > feature work, and I'd like to brainstorm potential large-scale
> > projects
> > > and gauge the level of interest in putting resources into them
> > soon.
> >
> > A bit more from the devops end that I'd love to see people tackle:
> >
> > - Ensure frameworks and app unit tests interacting with windows
> > can run
> > on Windows.
> > More details: The following fails on our windows CI
> >
> > https://invent.kde.org/sune/windows-test-thingie/-/blob/master/main.cpp
> > I find it weird that we are spending resources on putting things
> > in
> > the windows store and making apps available on windows, but we
> > can't
> > actually have passing tests in our CI.
> >
>
>
> This unfortunately will not be easy to solve.
>
> One of the key things that we've learned out of doing CI, as has been
> showcased by FreeBSD in particular, is that the builders need to be
> ephemeral - that is only around for the build in question that is
> being run.
> We're currently accomplishing this by using containers - via Podman
> (for Linux/Android/FreeBSD) and Docker (for Windows).
>
> Containers also offer us the advantage of allowing people to easily
> reproduce the CI environment on their local system without too much
> trouble.
>
> For Windows however, Microsoft has limited the container stack to not
> allow anything GUI related to work. The underlying libraries may be
> there, but the equivalent display server components are not
> operational.
>
> To complicate things further, on Windows certain permissions are
> restricted to the interactive console and are not possible to do as
> either a scheduled task or as a system service.
> Usage of existing Windows automation frameworks such as Powershell
> Remoting or SSH will therefore not work if we want things to
> perfectly replicate a end user environment - because those will run
> the command(s) as part of a non-interactive session (even if the user
> we connect as is the same one logged in on the desktop console).
Idk if it's a silly question, but… If Windows native containers have so
many restrictions, why not just use Linux containers with WINE inside?
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</style></head><body><div>On Sat, 2024-02-24 at 16:31 +1300, Ben Cooksley \
wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf \
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at \
11:12 PM Sune Vuorela <<a \
href="mailto:nospam@vuorela.dk">nospam@vuorela.dk</a>> wrote:<br></div><div \
class="gmail_quote"><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px \
#729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On 2024-02-22, Nate Graham <<a \
href="mailto:nate@kde.org" target="_blank">nate@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br>> I've \
started pondering post-megarelease projects. We've spent so long on <br>> porting \
and bugfixing that I think it might be useful to shift gears to <br>> feature \
work, and I'd like to brainstorm potential large-scale projects <br>> and gauge \
the level of interest in putting resources into them soon.<br></div><div><br>A bit \
more from the devops end that I'd love to see people \
tackle:<br></div><div><br> - Ensure frameworks and app unit tests interacting \
with windows can run<br> on Windows.<br> More details: The \
following fails on our windows CI<br> <a \
href="https://invent.kde.org/sune/windows-test-thingie/-/blob/master/main.cpp" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://invent.kde.org/sune/windows-test-thingie/-/blob/master/main.cpp</a><br> \
I find it weird that we are spending resources on putting things in<br> \
the windows store and making apps available on windows, but we can't<br> \
actually have passing tests in our \
CI.<br></div><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This unfortunately will not be easy \
to solve. </div><div><br></div><div>One of the key things that we've learned out \
of doing CI, as has been showcased by FreeBSD in particular, is that the \
builders need to be ephemeral - that is only around for the build in question that is \
being run.</div><div>We're currently accomplishing this by using containers - via \
Podman (for Linux/Android/FreeBSD) and Docker (for \
Windows).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Containers also offer us the advantage of \
allowing people to easily reproduce the CI environment on their local system without \
too much trouble.</div><div><br></div><div>For Windows however, Microsoft has limited \
the container stack to not allow anything GUI related to work. The underlying \
libraries may be there, but the equivalent display server components are not \
operational.</div><div><div><br></div><div>To complicate things further, on Windows \
certain permissions are restricted to the interactive console and are not possible to \
do as either a scheduled task or as a system service.</div><div><div>Usage of \
existing Windows automation frameworks such as Powershell Remoting or SSH will \
therefore not work if we want things to perfectly replicate a end user environment - \
because those will run the command(s) as part of a non-interactive session (even if \
the user we connect as is the same one logged in on the desktop \
console).</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Idk if it's a \
silly question, but… If Windows native containers have so many restrictions, why \
not just use Linux containers with WINE \
inside?</div><div><span></span></div></body></html>
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