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List:       kde-community
Subject:    Re: using gitlab ultimate
From:       "Agustin Benito (toscalix)" <abenito () kde ! org>
Date:       2023-08-02 15:20:42
Message-ID: CAPNLKcPmmkOU-ygDpXUQjsuwxq6AXMQEkyj+Vp6hp6q0fhm3gQ () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hello Harald,

Over the years, we have had similar discussions like this one, that
is, convenience vs principles, several times. You can check "Official
KDE mirror on github", around Sept. 2015, on this mailing list, for
reference. You will find some of the arguments that both parties can
put on the table there, with the corresponding counter arguments, if I
remember correctly. I remember learning a lot from that discussion.

Link: https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2015q3/001507.html

Different times bring different perspectives to the same arguments
but, since this discussion involves principles, I doubt that much has
changed. So do not be surprised if "principles" beat "convenience"
once again.

Now, if there is pain that developers feel every day, it is more
productive to open a debate focused on mitigating that pain in a way
that is compatible with our principles. Hopefully you will find
support there. So my question to you is...

What is the pain you would like to reduce or that process you would
like to improve to become more productive?


On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 3:41 PM Harald Sitter <sitter@kde.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 4:35 PM <christoph@cullmann.io> wrote:
> >
> > On 2023-08-02 16:26, Harald Sitter wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 4:23 PM Ingo Klöcker <kloecker@kde.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 15:55:44 CEST Harald Sitter wrote:
> > >> > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 3:48 PM Sune Vuorela <nospam@vuorela.dk> wrote:
> > >> > > On 2023-08-02, Harald Sitter <sitter@kde.org> wrote:
> > >> > > > I don't think so
> > >> > >
> > >> > > As such, I have a hard time seeing that these mentioned features is
> > >> > > important enough to give in on what I feel are our principles of a
> > >> > > organization doing free software.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I have a hard time finding any featureset where it would be important
> > >> > > enough.
> > >> >
> > >> > It is my understanding that non-trivial amounts of time have been
> > >> > spent on making a CI dashboard that now nobody uses because it is
> > >> > defunct or some such. In essence we've wasted valuable free software
> > >> > time. That seems a pretty compelling reason in my book.
> > >>
> > >> No, it's a pretty compelling reason to convince the GitLab folks to
> > >> make their
> > >> dashboard available to everyone.
> > >
> > > I'll not stop you :)
> > > Until that happens the argument stands.
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't think using commercial non-free solutions as the primary tool
> > for our development
> > is a good idea.
> >
> > Beside that, that is billed per user: https://about.gitlab.com/pricing/
> >
> > e.g. $1188 USD per year per non-guest user
> >
> > That looks like a lot money to pay given we have more than 10 users,
> > even if it
> > has less costs if you buy xxx accounts.
>
> It is my understanding that they are giving it away for free to free
> software projects.
>
> HS

Best Regards

Agustin Benito (toscalix)
KDE eV member
Profile: http://www.toscalix.com
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