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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Retirement of IRC Services and KDETalk.net (Jabber)
From: Vincent Pinon <vpinon () kde ! org>
Date: 2023-05-22 8:39:09
Message-ID: 8ce6b1b5-b88a-5ca2-0b47-b5a9437e4b7d () kde ! org
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Le 22/05/2023 à 10:24, Ben Cooksley a écrit :
> On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 10:05 AM argonel <argonel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2023 at 3:12 PM Ben Cooksley <bcooksley@kde.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, May 21, 2023 at 10:42 PM Christian (Fuchs)
> <kde@fuchsnet.ch> wrote:
>
> >> Bouncer wise: 30 connections isn't exactly none, especially if
> that contains
> >> active people. These would be forced to migrate to a service
> (and register at
> >> such) which is not under KDEs control and, as far as I am
> aware, has a
> >> mandatory registration. As far as memory serves some
> communities, e.g. I
> >> think krita, still had active devs / maintainers on IRC.
> >
> >
> > Yes, there is a cost-benefit analysis to all services we run
> however - and if there is a minimal number of people benefiting
> from it, sometimes it is time to retire a service.
> >
> > Note that the 30 I quoted was a count of TCP connections - so
> included inbound and outbound links.
> > The number of connected clients is much, much smaller - so it is
> possible there are some IRC connections still active for people
> that are no longer around, or who have moved to Matrix and not
> deactivated the BNC.
>
> I would argue that the low usage is in part due to lack of awareness.
> It has a one-line mention on the "Internet Relay Chat" community wiki
> page (which wasn't added until 2019) that doesn't even explain the
> benefits of using it.
>
> IRC in combination with the BNC is much more suited to intermittent
> usage than Matrix is, which currently obligates the user to "be
> active" every 30 days, or risk (permanently!) losing access to the
> entirety of the history of all of their joined channels (even the
> parts for which they were present). The BNC happily buffers the text
> until your client is able to reconnect. As an example, this allowed me
> to read discussions that happened while I endured an extended power
> outage, even when Matrix had decided that I was idle for "too long".
>
>
> Not sure what the bots do on the IRC side, but this kicking due to
> inactivity is actually due to IRC and the bridging between it and Matrix.
> It isn't an issue of Matrix itself as a protocol / software stack - it
> is a limitation imposed on the Matrix side to help Libera.chat with
> connection load.
>
>
> So instead of shuttering the service, I recommend that more attention
> be drawn to it.
>
>
> There are currently 114 people registered to use the BNC, so
> it appears to be rather well known among our community members.
> The decline in it's usage has correlated rather well with the rise of
> Matrix, so it appears that those that favour a BNC type experience
> find Matrix works just as well / better.
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
Hello,
This conversation made me realize I still had BNC activated for my
account, despite not connecting to IRC anymore for long (and to matrix
neither recently, my participation is rather on pause for the moment).
It is not clear on the BNC UI, nor on community wiki, how to close the
account. I just unregistered libera from BNC, but don't see how to
completely close the service for me?
Thanks again for taking care of all these services!
Vincent
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 22/05/2023 à 10:24, Ben Cooksley a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+XidOH6C6j2F1uq4YBL4WirudEnvyXM=W3+Npm5OuzxmShiNQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 10:05 AM argonel <<a
href="mailto:argonel@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">argonel@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sun, May 21, 2023 at
3:12 PM Ben Cooksley <<a href="mailto:bcooksley@kde.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bcooksley@kde.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Sun, May 21, 2023 at 10:42 PM Christian (Fuchs) <<a
href="mailto:kde@fuchsnet.ch" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kde@fuchsnet.ch</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
>> Bouncer wise: 30 connections isn't exactly none,
especially if that contains<br>
>> active people. These would be forced to migrate to
a service (and register at<br>
>> such) which is not under KDEs control and, as far
as I am aware, has a<br>
>> mandatory registration. As far as memory serves
some communities, e.g. I<br>
>> think krita, still had active devs / maintainers on
IRC.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Yes, there is a cost-benefit analysis to all services
we run however - and if there is a minimal number of people
benefiting from it, sometimes it is time to retire a
service.<br>
><br>
> Note that the 30 I quoted was a count of TCP
connections - so included inbound and outbound links.<br>
> The number of connected clients is much, much smaller -
so it is possible there are some IRC connections still
active for people that are no longer around, or who have
moved to Matrix and not deactivated the BNC.<br>
<br>
I would argue that the low usage is in part due to lack of
awareness.<br>
It has a one-line mention on the "Internet Relay Chat"
community wiki<br>
page (which wasn't added until 2019) that doesn't even
explain the<br>
benefits of using it.<br>
<br>
IRC in combination with the BNC is much more suited to
intermittent<br>
usage than Matrix is, which currently obligates the user to
"be<br>
active" every 30 days, or risk (permanently!) losing access
to the<br>
entirety of the history of all of their joined channels
(even the<br>
parts for which they were present). The BNC happily buffers
the text<br>
until your client is able to reconnect. As an example, this
allowed me<br>
to read discussions that happened while I endured an
extended power<br>
outage, even when Matrix had decided that I was idle for
"too long".<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not sure what the bots do on the IRC side, but this
kicking due to inactivity is actually due to IRC and the
bridging between it and Matrix.</div>
<div>It isn't an issue of Matrix itself as a protocol /
software stack - it is a limitation imposed on the Matrix
side to help Libera.chat with connection load.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
So instead of shuttering the service, I recommend that more
attention<br>
be drawn to it.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are currently 114 people registered to use the BNC,
so it appears to be rather well known among our community
members.</div>
<div>The decline in it's usage has correlated rather well with
the rise of Matrix, so it appears that those that favour a
BNC type experience find Matrix works just as well / better.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Ben</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>This conversation made me realize I still had BNC activated for
my account, despite not connecting to IRC anymore for long (and to
matrix neither recently, my participation is rather on pause for
the moment).</p>
<p>It is not clear on the BNC UI, nor on community wiki, how to
close the account. I just unregistered libera from BNC, but don't
see how to completely close the service for me?</p>
<p>Thanks again for taking care of all these services!</p>
<p>Vincent<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
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