From kde-community Sat Mar 27 00:02:51 2021 From: Valorie Zimmerman Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 00:02:51 +0000 To: kde-community Subject: Re: Apology Message-Id: X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-community&m=161680922422415 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--0000000000004a4aad05be795f73" --0000000000004a4aad05be795f73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Niccol=C3=B2, On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:26 PM Niccol=C3=B2 Ve wrote: > Hi. > > > Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. > > This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off topic. > The KDE Community list exists, according to the subscription page: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community The purpose of the mailing list is to provide a place for non-technical > information and discussions which are relevant to the KDE community as a > whole. All people who consider themselves to be part of the KDE community > are invited to join. Conversations on the mailing list are respectful, > considerate, polite and constructive following our KDE Code of Conduct. > The list collects announcements, information and results from discussions > in other places and offers a place to get feedback on non-technical > questions or plans of relevance for the whole KDE community. Anything else is off-topic. > A RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic. > The original post was about the FSF and their governance. Unfortunately "RMS pro/con" hijacked that thread and caused this list to be moderated. > If you want to shutdown the discussion, just say so. > I did so. > The fact that RMS is not "the issue" (he's surely _an_ issue...) does not > change that > the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an email 10 hours *before* > this apology. > It was rejected just* now.* As offtopic. > I live in the US; most of the other mods live in Europe. If they had wanted to act on your email they could have done so, but I believe I was the one to reject your post. There was nothing time-sensitive in it. I did not like that thread, but this handling of the situation is plain out > bad. This apology > mail only made things worse. If I did not know about KDE, I'd say that > they are censoring > the discussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed. > Requiring lists to be on-topic is not censorship, which *governments* do. We're volunteers trying to keep lists "respectful, considerate, polite and constructive." Had the discussion kept to that, even though off-topic, it probably could have been solved by a warning. Even the original motivation for putting the ML under moderation could've > been worded better, > it raised complaints from some people I know. > Yes, I should have followed my own advice and removed my personal thoughts. That was not constructive. Putting an email under manual moderation requires that manual moderation to > happen much, > much faster than 10 hours. If help is needed in moderating, please say so= . > If you want to shutdown the discussion about RMS, say it was getting too > aggressive, not that > it's "offtopic". > > Niccol=C3=B2 > We're all volunteers. Help is always welcome! List administration is not the most interesting job, but it is not usually difficult either. If you are interested, write to "$listname-owner@kde.org" (in this case, kde-community-owner at kde.org) and volunteer your services. Valorie > > Il giorno ven 26 mar 2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman < > valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> Hello my friends, >> >> When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was >> necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as >> possible. >> >> I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn'= t >> die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice = and >> walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expresse= d a >> personal opinion. >> >> While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software= , >> he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the >> more I realize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical t= o >> the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is ve= ry >> worrying. >> >> My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that >> I am truly sorry. >> >> Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. >> >> Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all of this= . >> >> All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of the Free software >> communities, >> >> Valorie >> >> -- >> http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her >> > > > -- > Niccol=C3=B2 Venerandi > > --=20 http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her --0000000000004a4aad05be795f73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0Niccol=C3=B2,

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:26 PM = Niccol=C3=B2 Ve <niccolo.= venerandi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi.

> Posts = about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed.=C2=A0

This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off topic.

The KDE Community list exis= ts, according to the subscription=C2=A0page:=C2=A0https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinf= o/kde-community

The purpose of the mailing list is to provide a place for no= n-technical information and discussions which are relevant to the KDE commu= nity as a whole. All people who consider themselves to be part of the KDE c= ommunity are invited to join. Conversations on the mailing list are respect= ful, considerate, polite and constructive following our KDE Code of Conduct= .
The list collects announcements, information and results from discussi= ons in other places and offers a place to get feedback on non-technical que= stions or plans of relevance for the whole KDE community.
=
Anything else is off-topic.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
A = RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic.

The original post was about the FSF and their gove= rnance. Unfortunately "RMS pro/con" hijacked that thread and caus= ed this list to be moderated.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
If you want to = shutdown the discussion, just say so.
I did so.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
The fact that RMS is n= ot "the issue" (he's surely _an_ issue...) does not change th= at
the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an email 10= hours before this apology.
It was rejected just n= ow. As offtopic.

I li= ve in the US; most of the other mods live in Europe. If they had wanted to = act on your email they could have done so, but I believe I was the one to r= eject your post. There was nothing time-sensitive in it.=C2=A0
=
I did not like that thread, but this handling of the situation is= plain out bad. This apology
mail only made things worse. If I di= d not know about KDE, I'd say that they are censoring
the dis= cussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed.

Requiring lists to be on-topic is not censorship, which *= governments* do. We're volunteers trying to keep lists "respectful= , considerate, polite and constructive." Had the discussion kept to th= at, even though off-topic, it probably could have been solved by a warning.=

Even the original motivation for putting the ML unde= r moderation could've been worded better,
it raised complaint= s from some people I know.

Yes, I should have followed my own advice and removed my personal tho= ughts. That was not constructive.=C2=A0

Putting an em= ail under manual moderation requires that manual moderation to happen much,=
much faster than 10 hours. If help is needed in moderating, plea= se say so.
If you want to shutdown the discussion about RMS, say = it was getting too aggressive, not that
it's "offtopic&q= uot;.

Niccol=C3=B2

We're all volunteers. Help is always welcome! Li= st administration is not the most interesting job, but it is not usually di= fficult either. If you are interested, write to "$listname-owner@kde.org" (in this case, kde-c= ommunity-owner at kde.org) and volunteer you= r services.

Valorie

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
Il giorno v= en 26 mar 2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman <valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com&g= t; ha scritto:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">Hello my friends,

When I put this list o= n emergency moderation, I felt that this was necessary. It still seems so, = but I want to lift moderation as soon as possible.=C2=A0

I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that &quo= t;wouldn't die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have follow= ed my own advice and walked away after writing my email and then removed pa= rts which expressed a personal opinion.=C2=A0

While I may dis= agree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, he=C2=A0is not t= he issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the more I re= alize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical to the growth= of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very worrying.= =C2=A0

My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, a= nd for that I am truly sorry.=C2=A0

Posts about Ri= chard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed.=C2=A0

<= /div>
Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all = of this.=C2=A0

All the best to each of you, to KDE= and all of the Free software communities,

Valorie=

--
http://about.me/valorie= z=C2=A0- pronouns: she/her


--
Niccol=C3=B2 Venerandi=

=


--
http://about.me/valoriez=C2=A0- pronouns: = she/her


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