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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Proposal: Mailing List owner policy
From: Valorie Zimmerman <valorie.zimmerman () gmail ! com>
Date: 2020-07-23 21:49:23
Message-ID: CACpu024FOS+tzec3fNT-f6ZAE_XhywKKskzh6dNmqmBCp-y7rQ () mail ! gmail ! com
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I had another thought hours after I sent my reply to Albert. What if we
create a list for KDE listowners to which all listowners and mods are
subscribed? That way we can approach issues as a team, share resources and
problems, ask one another for coverage during planned absences, etc.
We had a list like this at Rootsweb, a free genealogy community, and it
generally worked well. RW also used Mailman software before closing the
lists recently. I've moved most of my former lists to Groups.io which is a
splendid platform. I very much wish it was Free software!
It seems like a lits would be a more stable way to approach the issue than
an annual inquiry email.
Thoughts?
Valorie
On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:38 AM Ben Cooksley <bcooksley@kde.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 4:55 PM Valorie Zimmerman
> <valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:31 PM Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Community,
> >>
> >> One important part of mailing lists being healthy is
> owners/moderators[1].
> >>
> >> They moderate the lists, they help users that want to
> subscribe/unsubscribe but don't know how to, they enact emergency
> moderation in the very very seldom case that it is needed, etc.
> >>
> >> So to keep our mailing lists healthy we need to be sure to have healthy
> list owners.
> >>
> >> In plural, more than one, because from time to time, we go on vacation
> and the list duties still need taking care of.
> >>
> >> For that I'd like to enact this policy:
> >>
> >> Mailing lists should have at least 2 active owners, ideally 3
> [Obviously exceptions apply, like if we just started a mailing list to
> coordinate translators for a language that has no translation in KDE yet,
> we'd probably have no way to get 2 list owners]
> >>
> >> One keyword in that sentence is "active".
> >>
> >> Mailing list ownership/moderation un-activity is hard to detect.
> >>
> >> One way to potentially detect it, is by those summaries that sysadmin
> sends periodically for lists with lots of mails to moderate, but that
> doesn't cover all the cases.
> >>
> >> For example, it's possible that a mailing list has 2 owners and only
> one of them is inactive, since the other one is keeping the list in working
> condition we don't see it as a problem, but if that person goes on holiday,
> then it suddenly is.
> >>
> >> For that I'd like to enact this policy sub-point:
> >>
> >> Mailing list owners will be contacted every year asking if they are
> still active and if they want to continue being list owner or if they'd
> prefer we find a substitute.
> >>
> >> If they say "please find a substitute" or fail to answer in a given
> time frame (I'd say a month is fair), they will be removed as owners and in
> case the "at least 2 active owners, ideally 3" policy is broken we'll find
> a new person.
> >>
> >> Does that sound something like we could agree on?
> >
> >
> > I think this is a good idea.
> >
> >> Then the big question is "who will do this work?" Because it seems
> quite a bit of work (albeit only once a year). I would suggest the
> Community Working Group does this, as it's a way to keep our community
> healthy, but i understand it's quite some work, so i volunteer to do it if
> the CWG doesn't feel this is a task they want to take on.
> >
> >
> > As a member of CWG, I think that this is a suitable task for us, and I'm
> willing to do it. However, surely there is a master list of all the lists
> and who the stated owners and mods are. If so, can't the sending be done
> somewhat automatically? With the answers going to the CWG or whoever, to
> find replacement people.
> >
>
> You'd need a way of catching the exceptions - the people who don't reply
> though.
> Not sure how easy that would be to automate, but it's probably possible.
>
> In terms of getting a list of all lists, we can provide one of those
> (it's attached). I'm not sure if Mailman provides anything out of the
> box that lists who the owners of a list are though.
>
> >> Things I'm missing?
> >
> >
> > Healthy lists are somewhat active. While a major protective duty of
> owners and mods is to keep spam out and keep conversations moving in a
> positive way, another is to keep the list active by bringing to it
> appropriate topics of discussion. I don't want that forgotten. Too often
> issues are discussed in IRC and never brought to the list where they ought
> to be.
> >
> >> Improvement suggestions?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Albert
> >>
> >> [1] yes, i know they are not the same, but since one is a subset of the
> other, let's pretend they are.
> >
> >
> > I would like to hear from Sysadmin how many lists we have and how many
> owners and if there is a way to automatically send an email to all owners
> along with the names of the lists they administer.
> >
> > Valorie
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
>
> >
> > --
> > http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
> >
> >
>
--
http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">I had another thought hours after I sent my reply to Albert. What if \
we create a list for KDE listowners to which all listowners and mods are subscribed? \
That way we can approach issues as a team, share resources and problems, ask one \
another for coverage during planned absences, etc.<div><br></div><div>We had a list \
like this at Rootsweb, a free genealogy community, and it generally worked well. RW \
also used Mailman software before closing the lists recently. I've moved most of \
my former lists to Groups.io which is a splendid platform. I very much wish it was \
Free software!<br><div><br></div><div>It seems like a lits would be a more stable \
way to approach the issue than an annual inquiry \
email.</div><div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div>Valorie</div></div></div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:38 AM \
Ben Cooksley <<a href="mailto:bcooksley@kde.org">bcooksley@kde.org</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 \
at 4:55 PM Valorie Zimmerman<br> <<a href="mailto:valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> ><br>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:31 PM Albert Astals Cid <<a \
href="mailto:aacid@kde.org" target="_blank">aacid@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br> \
>><br> >> Dear Community,<br>
>><br>
>> One important part of mailing lists being healthy is \
owners/moderators[1].<br> >><br>
>> They moderate the lists, they help users that want to subscribe/unsubscribe \
but don't know how to, they enact emergency moderation in the very very seldom \
case that it is needed, etc.<br> >><br>
>> So to keep our mailing lists healthy we need to be sure to have healthy list \
owners.<br> >><br>
>> In plural, more than one, because from time to time, we go on vacation and \
the list duties still need taking care of.<br> >><br>
>> For that I'd like to enact this policy:<br>
>><br>
>> Mailing lists should have at least 2 active owners, ideally 3 \
[Obviously exceptions apply, like if we just started a mailing list to coordinate \
translators for a language that has no translation in KDE yet, we'd probably have \
no way to get 2 list owners]<br> >><br>
>> One keyword in that sentence is "active".<br>
>><br>
>> Mailing list ownership/moderation un-activity is hard to detect.<br>
>><br>
>> One way to potentially detect it, is by those summaries that sysadmin sends \
periodically for lists with lots of mails to moderate, but that doesn't cover all \
the cases.<br> >><br>
>> For example, it's possible that a mailing list has 2 owners and only one \
of them is inactive, since the other one is keeping the list in working condition we \
don't see it as a problem, but if that person goes on holiday, then it suddenly \
is.<br> >><br>
>> For that I'd like to enact this policy sub-point:<br>
>><br>
>> Mailing list owners will be contacted every year asking if they are \
still active and if they want to continue being list owner or if they'd prefer we \
find a substitute.<br> >><br>
>> If they say "please find a substitute" or fail to answer in a \
given time frame (I'd say a month is fair), they will be removed as owners and in \
case the "at least 2 active owners, ideally 3" policy is broken we'll \
find a new person.<br> >><br>
>> Does that sound something like we could agree on?<br>
><br>
><br>
> I think this is a good idea.<br>
><br>
>> Then the big question is "who will do this work?" Because it seems \
quite a bit of work (albeit only once a year). I would suggest the Community Working \
Group does this, as it's a way to keep our community healthy, but i understand \
it's quite some work, so i volunteer to do it if the CWG doesn't feel this is \
a task they want to take on.<br> ><br>
><br>
> As a member of CWG, I think that this is a suitable task for us, and I'm \
willing to do it. However, surely there is a master list of all the lists and who the \
stated owners and mods are. If so, can't the sending be done somewhat \
automatically? With the answers going to the CWG or whoever, to find replacement \
people.<br> ><br>
<br>
You'd need a way of catching the exceptions - the people who don't reply \
though.<br> Not sure how easy that would be to automate, but it's probably \
possible.<br> <br>
In terms of getting a list of all lists, we can provide one of those<br>
(it's attached). I'm not sure if Mailman provides anything out of the<br>
box that lists who the owners of a list are though.<br>
<br>
>> Things I'm missing?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Healthy lists are somewhat active. While a major protective duty of owners and \
mods is to keep spam out and keep conversations moving in a positive way, another is \
to keep the list active by bringing to it appropriate topics of discussion. I \
don't want that forgotten. Too often issues are discussed in IRC and never \
brought to the list where they ought to be.<br> ><br>
>> Improvement suggestions?<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Albert<br>
>><br>
>> [1] yes, i know they are not the same, but since one is a subset of the \
other, let's pretend they are.<br> ><br>
><br>
> I would like to hear from Sysadmin how many lists we have and how many owners \
and if there is a way to automatically send an email to all owners along with the \
names of the lists they administer.<br> ><br>
> Valorie<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> <a href="http://about.me/valoriez" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">http://about.me/valoriez</a> - pronouns: she/her<br> ><br>
><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><a href="http://about.me/valoriez" \
target="_blank">http://about.me/valoriez</a> - pronouns: \
she/her<br><br><br></div></div></div>
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